Tony\'s God (Introduction)

by Balance_Maintained , U.S.A., Monday, November 21, 2011, 18:44 (4729 days ago) @ dhw

EVIL:

I'm trying to find a good way to explain how I see the issue and faltering with a lack of proper words and a way to express what to me are quite simple ideas. So let us see if I can put it in better terms.

A) Good and Evil as we know them are a cliche. Darkness is not better than light, it is the opposite side of the coin and is a complete necessity.
B) God is the creator of life, the father of the human race, and the giver of the ultimate gift. If he takes that gift away for a time in order to teach a valuable lesson, he does so with the full knowledge and confidence that he can restore that gift at a later date. I would argue that you are arguing based solely on an emotional response based on your value of life. You say that what he did was wrong and unfair, much like a child would say that confiscating their allowance to punish them is wrong and unfair, without taking into consideration that he can give back what he has taken.

CONSENSUS
DHW

So murder, rape and robbery are likely to be OK in God’s eyes?

If you have given someone the gift of life, and you are able to return the gift should you decide to retract your offer because of their misdeeds, then yes. However, as no human posesses the capacity to give the gift of life, then no human has the right of murdering another.

I am fairly certain that God never raped a woman. In fact, the angels that did have relationships with human women were cast out of heaven.

Again, for your argument of indiscriminate slaughter, he never took something that he had not given and could return in better than its original condition.

WORSHIP
DHW

Parents don’t deserve love because they are parents. They have to earn love.

And there are millions of children(humans) who hate God. But, God gave you life, a world to live in, a wonderful mind to appreciate it all with, the freedom to explore and grow as you chose, and the wisdom of his guidance. I think he has done more than any parent in human history to earn your love and respect. God also did not force humans to prove their love and trust before conferring knowledge upon them. In Adam's case, God walked with him in the garden speaking with him(teaching him). It was only after humanity turned away that he asked worship as a pre-condition, and even then all he asked is that you be receptive, put effort into your study, and show your appreciation by your actions. The only thing that he did not give you directly, is your choice. What he gave you was the ability to make it with the promise that he would not force you to choose one way or the other, and that is why that choice is so important to him.

SACRIFICE
What lesson for life was God teaching Abraham when he told him to slit his son’s throat?

That God is the creator of life. That what we give up in service to him, he can give back to us. The faith part is the faith that he WILL do so.
(btw To a child, hard work could be considered appalling. Hell, I know some adults who are apalled by it. :P)

PEEING ON GOD’S SANDALS
DHW
In biblical terms, as quoted by my learned friend the Counsel for the Defence, “The son will not share the guilt of the father” (Ezekiel 18:20)

Firstly, genetically they were already tainted. Secondly, mentally that had been raised by their parents would would have passed on their mental taint to their children. Any psychologist worth his salt can tell you that parents pass on their own twisted ideas to their kids, and they could also tell you how difficult it is in adulthood to leave behind the ideals you were raised with. Yes, each man will be judged for their own sins, but because we pass on a screwed up since of reality to our children, they will always sin. We make it impossible for them not to. Also, God didn't kill Abel, Cain did.

KILLING KIDS
DHW

Great. Then let’s kill everybody, to spare them the problems of this life. Your Honour, I submit that the Counsel for the Defence is advocating mass extermination in the name of the Lord. And I don’t like the look in his eye.

Objection Your Honor, counsel is speculating and twisting the testimony. God can kill because he can give it back in better condition than the original, unless you can do that, you are dead wrong.

GOD’S MOTIVE
DHW

That is what this trial is all about, and motive is directly relevant to our understanding of the alleged crimes. But you and I can ONLY debate the issues according to our (not just my) limited knowledge, and according to what WE see as right and wrong. The rest is up to the jury.

The alleged crime of taking back a precious gift that had been taken for granted, used, abused, degraded, and misused in order to keep it safe until such time as it could be given back under more controlled circumstances?

Humans never ate from the tree of life. What does that imply? The life we were originally given was given freely, but the right to permanant ownership was conditional. No human has ever met the conditions, so no human has complete ownership of their life. You wouldn't fault a car company for reposessing a car when the owner defaulted on the contract. So why do you hold it against God?

*******
I always appreciate your arguments DHW, and though we may have opposite views, your arguments always force me to think about my position, which is more challenge than what most people can offer.

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What is the purpose of living? How about, 'to reduce needless suffering. It seems to me to be a worthy purpose.