Science vs. Religion: (Chapter 4) (Humans)

by xeno6696 , Sonoran Desert, Saturday, July 09, 2011, 17:30 (4681 days ago) @ David Turell

However I keep returning to the point that overall as a process, we haven't observed an evolutionary race happen without some kind of selection pressure... maybe you're going to deal with that somewhere in the book, but to me thus far, I don't see a way to avoid stimulus->response, which to me is truly the underlying mechanism for evolution.
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> I'm sure it is your training, but I've always thought of natural selection as part of a passive mechanism, and I haven't changed my mind, even though you have argued for it as more than passive. NS only deals with what 'might' be presented to it; there is ino way around that concept. Can an organism survive an environmental mileau alteration. On the other hand environmental stress, we now know, allows organisms to create their own changes. And only then does NS have a role in this circumstance.-Not really training; just look at it. You're kinda talking about it now, but each geological age is marked by some huge environmental change; and environmental changes also create new areas for creatures to expand into. Oxygen appears to be the trigger for the Cambrian; but I have seen no discussion yet of the role of inter-species competition as a driving force for evolution, or behavior... and then we haven't even gone into evolutionary arms-races between creatures which clearly drive incredibly rapid change. I don't yet see where doom is spelled for Natural Selection; the burden of your argument thus far is to demonstrate that evolution happens for no reason at all. THAT is the only way to dislodge Natural Selection. We need to see speciation happening without a selective pressure for your argument to stick. Selective pressure is what ramps up change, not the passive "wait for mutations" I've seen you argue thus far. -Also on 103 you were discussing the PAX gene. The beta-lactase experiment demonstrated that organisms use what's available to create new functions; maybe you haven't gotten to it yet, but I see no reason to conclude that PAX 60 existed in exactly the form it is today, what stopped early creatures from adapting other genes? What genes extant today are similar in structure, or more primitive?

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\"Why is it, Master, that ascetics fight with ascetics?\"

\"It is, brahmin, because of attachment to views, adherence to views, fixation on views, addiction to views, obsession with views, holding firmly to views that ascetics fight with ascetics.\"