Panpsychism Makes a Comeback: denied in plants II (General)

by dhw, Wednesday, July 10, 2019, 10:22 (7 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: I disagree with your smudging together animal awareness with the attributes of human consciousness. Adler made a great point about the importance of the difference.

dhw: There is no smudging. Animals share our awareness/consciousness of external conditions, and are sentient, communicative, decision-making etc., just as we are. But they do not have the additional levels of consciousness that enable us to do all the extras that mark us out as being very different from them. In other words, “we have a vastly greater level of consciousness/awareness than our fellow animals.” Why do you keep trying to manufacture a disagreement?

DAVID: I disagree with your giving animals any part of consciousness other than awareness. They are simply conscious as I view it.

I have defined consciousness as awareness, but you persist in ignoring my statement that there are different levels of awareness/consciousness, although that is precisely what you keep saying yourself! You seem to be desperate to define consciousness as human self-awareness and to manufacture a disagreement out of that.

DAVID: You are having fun: God does not have neurons, only animals do.

dhw: Yes, I am pointing out various discrepancies in your thinking. You do recognize mental activity that is not related to neurons, e.g. in God and, as below, in souls.

DAVID: Remember: Souls and God are supernatural, not requiring neurons.

Yes again, I am pointing out that you do recognize mental activity that is not related to neurons. You simply refuse to recognize it in bacteria and plants.

dhw: And I also thought you were a dualist, and firmly believed in an immaterial soul which was capable of mental activity. And I also thought you said most scientists now agree that brainless bacteria are intelligent, i.e. mentally active.

DAVID: You are pipe-dreaming. I have never said bacteria are intelligent. They act under intelligently implanted instructions.

dhw: You are not reading what I wrote, which relates to what most scientists agree on. I know you disagree with most scientists. That is why I query your statement that “The only mental activity I recognize along with most scientists is related to neurons, especially in brains.” (My bold)

DAVID: "Most" scientists are not the few you keep repeating.

It was you who acknowledged that most scientists now accept bacterial intelligence, but I can’t find the reference now.

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