Panpsychism Makes a Comeback: denied in plants II (General)

by David Turell , Sunday, July 07, 2019, 20:29 (1964 days ago) @ dhw

dhw: The biggest danger to objectivity is the assumption that human consciousness is the only form of consciousness. (I prefer the term “intelligence”, as it avoids confusion with human self-awareness.) If we take consciousness to be a synonym of awareness, and if our criteria for awareness include sentience, communication, decision-making, then it is clearly absurd to assume that plants and bacteria are NOT conscious. […] Human consciousness includes self-awareness.My point is that there are other forms and levels of consciousness/awareness[...] There are massive distinctions, however, between levels of consciousness/awareness.

DAVID: I do not believe in your definitions. Human consciousness would not be the'hard problem' under your approach if applied to humans. Animals are conscious and aware at various levels but there is a vast difference in the two levels.

dhw: You do not believe that consciousness = awareness? Then please give us your own definition. The rest of your comment is a direct repetition of my own (now bolded). Thank you for your agreement.

DAVID: Awareness is just one aspect of consciousness as experienced by humans. I will only accept that animals are conscious and therefore are aware. Complete consciousness which means the ability to conceptualize, to have abstract thoughts and to be aware that they are aware is only found in human consciousness. You are trying to smudge Adler's point that we are different in kind!

dhw: You keep repeating what I say as if I hadn’t said it. Humans have a vastly greater level of conscious/awareness than other life forms. That does NOT mean that other organisms do not have their own degree of consciousness/awareness. There is no disagreement between us! But you are, of course, welcome to disagree with the many scientists who believe that plants and bacteria have a degree of awareness.

Our disagreement is your use of equating awareness with consciousness. Awareness only means the animal is conscious