Panpsychism Makes a Comeback: denied in plants II (General)

by David Turell , Tuesday, July 09, 2019, 14:52 (1753 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: I disagree with your smudging together animal awareness with the attributes of human consciousness. Adler made a great point about the importance of the difference.

dhw: There is no smudging. Animals share our awareness/consciousness of external conditions, and are sentient, communicative, decision-making etc., just as we are. But they do not have the additional levels of consciousness that enable us to do all the extras that mark us out as being very different from them. In other words, “we have a vastly greater level of consciousness/awareness than our fellow animals.” Why do you keep trying to manufacture a disagreement?

I disagree with your giving animals any part of consciousness other than awareness. They are simply conscious as I view it.

DAVID: You are having fun: God does not have neurons, only animals do.

dhw: Yes, I am pointing out various discrepancies in your thinking. You do recognize mental activity that is not related to neurons, e.g. in God and, as below, in souls.

Remember: Souls and God are supernatural, not requiring neurons.

dhw: And I also thought you were a dualist, and firmly believed in an immaterial soul which was capable of mental activity. And I also thought you said most scientists now agree that brainless bacteria are intelligent, i.e. mentally active.

DAVID: You are pipe-dreaming. I have never said bacteria are intelligent. They act under intelligently implanted instructions.

dhw: You are not reading what I wrote, which relates to what most scientists agree on. I know you disagree with most scientists. That is why I query your statement that “The only mental activity I recognize along with most scientists is related to neurons, especially in brains.” (My bold)

"Most" scientists are not the few you keep repeating.

dhw: You even accept a bottom-up view of evolution in so far as it starts with comparatively simple forms of life and evolves into ever increasing complexity. But I accept all your reservations concerning the mental capacity of all materials. I find that as difficult to believe in as a universal mind that has simply always been there.

DAVID: I fully understand all of your difficulties, especially your uncontrolled tendency to humanize god

I’m glad you understand that I am torn between two hypotheses, each of which seems to be equally unlikely. Nothing to do with humanizing. See “unanswered questions”.

I do.