Panpsychism Makes a Comeback in a different form (General)
This approach generally describes a conscious universe in action:
https://aeon.co/essays/cosmopsychism-explains-why-the-universe-is-fine-tuned-for-life?u...
" In The Life of the Cosmos (1999), the physicist Lee Smolin has estimated that, taking into account all of the fine-tuning examples considered, the chance of life existing in the Universe is 1 in 10229, from which he concludes:
In my opinion, a probability this tiny is not something we can let go unexplained. Luck will certainly not do here; we need some rational explanation of how something this unlikely turned out to be the case.
***
"If we combine holism with panpsychism, we get cosmopsychism: the view that the Universe is conscious, and that the consciousness of humans and animals is derived not from the consciousness of fundamental particles, but from the consciousness of the Universe itself. This is the view I ultimately defend in Consciousness and Fundamental Reality.
***
The Canadian philosopher John Leslie proposed an intriguing explanation of the fine-tuning, which in Universes (1989) he called ‘axiarchism’. What strikes us as so incredible about the fine-tuning is that, of all the values the constants in our laws had, they ended up having exactly those values required for something of great value: life, and ultimately intelligent life. If the laws had not, against huge odds, been fine-tuned, the Universe would have had infinitely less value; some say it would have had no value at all. Leslie proposes that this proper understanding of the problem points us in the direction of the best solution: the laws are fine-tuned because their being so leads to something of great value. Leslie is not imagining a deity mediating between the facts of value and the cosmological facts; the facts of value, as it were, reach out and fix the values directly.
***
"But the cosmopsychist has a way of rendering axiarchism intelligible, by proposing that the mental capacities of the Universe mediate between value facts and cosmological facts. On this view, which we can call ‘agentive cosmopsychism’, the Universe itself fine-tuned the laws in response to considerations of value. When was this done? In the first 10-43 seconds, known as the Planck epoch, our current physical theories, in which the fine-tuned laws are embedded, break down. The cosmopsychist can propose that during this early stage of cosmological history, the Universe itself ‘chose’ the fine-tuned values in order to make possible a universe of value.
"Making sense of this requires two modifications to basic cosmopsychism. Firstly, we need to suppose that the Universe acts through a basic capacity to recognise and respond to considerations of value. This is very different from how we normally think about things, but it is consistent with everything we observe. The Scottish philosopher David Hume long ago noted that all we can really observe is how things behave – the underlying forces that give rise to those behaviours are invisible to us. We standardly assume that the Universe is powered by a number of non-rational causal capacities, but it is also possible that it is powered by the capacity of the Universe to respond to considerations of value.
***
"It is no less parsimonious to suppose that the Universe has a consciousness-involving nature than that it has some non-consciousness-involving nature. If anything, the former proposal is more parsimonious insofar as it is continuous with the only thing we really know about the nature of matter: that brains have consciousness.
***
"The idea that the Universe is a conscious mind that responds to value strikes us a ludicrously extravagant cartoon. But we must judge the view not on its cultural associations but on its explanatory power. Agentive cosmopsychism explains the fine-tuning without making false predictions; and it does so with a simplicity and elegance unmatched by its rivals. It is a view we should take seriously. (my bold)
Comment: I'm with my bold. To me this is ludicrously extravagant thesis to get rid of simply accepting that we have a conscious universe thru the agency of God's mind. Also I read Leslie differently. I think he is a theist. His conclusion was "much evidence exists that God is real and/or there exist vastly, many, very varied universes".
Complete thread:
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback -
dhw,
2015-01-21, 19:57
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback -
George Jelliss,
2015-01-21, 22:06
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback -
David Turell,
2015-01-21, 23:54
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback -
dhw,
2015-01-22, 19:32
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback -
David Turell,
2015-01-22, 23:03
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback -
dhw,
2015-01-23, 15:44
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback -
David Turell,
2015-01-23, 22:22
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback -
dhw,
2015-01-24, 18:31
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback -
David Turell,
2015-01-25, 00:22
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback -
dhw,
2015-01-25, 20:34
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback -
David Turell,
2015-01-25, 23:53
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback -
dhw,
2015-01-26, 17:35
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback -
David Turell,
2015-01-27, 00:44
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback -
dhw,
2015-01-27, 20:38
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback -
David Turell,
2015-01-28, 00:17
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback -
dhw,
2015-01-28, 19:20
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback -
David Turell,
2015-01-28, 22:15
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback - David Turell, 2015-01-28, 22:24
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback -
dhw,
2015-01-29, 20:22
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback -
David Turell,
2015-01-30, 00:58
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback -
David Turell,
2016-02-23, 15:14
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback -
dhw,
2016-02-24, 13:31
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback -
David Turell,
2016-02-24, 20:13
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback -
dhw,
2016-02-25, 13:40
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback -
David Turell,
2016-02-25, 14:49
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback -
dhw,
2016-02-26, 12:52
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback -
David Turell,
2016-02-26, 14:42
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback -
dhw,
2016-02-27, 12:29
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback -
David Turell,
2016-02-27, 14:46
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback; denied -
David Turell,
2016-09-20, 15:55
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback; denied -
dhw,
2016-09-21, 12:40
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback; denied -
David Turell,
2016-09-21, 19:22
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback; supported -
David Turell,
2017-03-01, 17:57
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback; supported -
dhw,
2017-03-02, 13:11
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback; supported -
David Turell,
2017-03-03, 00:28
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback; supported -
David Turell,
2017-04-16, 16:47
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback; supported II -
David Turell,
2017-04-16, 20:31
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback; supported III -
David Turell,
2018-01-30, 19:30
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback; supported III -
dhw,
2018-01-31, 14:16
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback; supported III -
David Turell,
2018-01-31, 15:52
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback; supported III -
dhw,
2018-02-01, 14:00
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback; supported III - David Turell, 2018-02-01, 18:33
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback; supported III -
dhw,
2018-02-01, 14:00
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback; supported III -
David Turell,
2018-01-31, 15:52
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback; supported III; an answer - David Turell, 2018-03-04, 18:04
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback; physicist denies -
David Turell,
2019-01-04, 00:02
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback; physicist denies -
dhw,
2019-01-04, 13:38
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback; physicist denies -
David Turell,
2019-01-04, 15:05
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback; physicist denies -
dhw,
2019-01-05, 12:35
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback; physicist denies -
David Turell,
2019-01-05, 14:51
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback; physicist denies -
dhw,
2019-01-06, 10:28
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback; physicist denies -
David Turell,
2019-01-06, 15:38
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback; physicist denies -
dhw,
2019-01-07, 11:07
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback; physicist denies - David Turell, 2019-01-08, 01:32
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback; physicist denies -
dhw,
2019-01-07, 11:07
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback; physicist denies -
David Turell,
2019-01-06, 15:38
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback; physicist denies -
dhw,
2019-01-06, 10:28
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback; physicist denies -
David Turell,
2019-01-05, 14:51
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback; physicist denies -
dhw,
2019-01-05, 12:35
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback; physicist denies -
David Turell,
2019-01-04, 15:05
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback; physicist denies -
dhw,
2019-01-04, 13:38
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback in a different form -
David Turell,
2019-01-19, 18:59
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback in a different form -
dhw,
2019-01-20, 12:14
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback in a different form -
David Turell,
2019-01-20, 18:20
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback in a different form -
dhw,
2019-01-21, 13:31
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback in a different form -
David Turell,
2019-01-21, 15:22
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback in a different form -
dhw,
2019-01-22, 11:17
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback in a different form -
David Turell,
2019-01-22, 15:10
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback in a different form -
dhw,
2019-01-23, 13:04
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback in a different form -
David Turell,
2019-01-23, 19:14
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback in a different form -
dhw,
2019-01-24, 10:22
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback in a different form -
David Turell,
2019-01-24, 20:46
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback in a different form -
dhw,
2019-01-25, 10:40
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback in a different form -
David Turell,
2019-01-25, 21:31
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback in a different form -
dhw,
2019-01-26, 13:43
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback in a different form -
David Turell,
2019-01-26, 15:25
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback in a different form -
dhw,
2019-01-27, 12:18
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback in a different form -
David Turell,
2019-01-27, 19:36
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback in a different form -
dhw,
2019-01-28, 13:55
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback in a different form -
David Turell,
2019-01-28, 15:00
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback: denied in plants -
David Turell,
2019-07-03, 23:07
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback: denied in plants II -
David Turell,
2019-07-04, 00:45
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback: denied in plants II -
dhw,
2019-07-04, 10:40
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback: denied in plants II -
David Turell,
2019-07-04, 20:58
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback: denied in plants II -
dhw,
2019-07-05, 12:23
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback: denied in plants II -
David Turell,
2019-07-05, 14:48
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback: denied in plants II -
dhw,
2019-07-06, 08:04
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback: denied in plants II -
David Turell,
2019-07-06, 15:49
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback: denied in plants II -
dhw,
2019-07-07, 11:17
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback: denied in plants II -
David Turell,
2019-07-07, 20:29
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback: denied in plants II -
dhw,
2019-07-08, 10:38
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback: denied in plants II -
David Turell,
2019-07-08, 15:10
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback: denied in plants II -
dhw,
2019-07-09, 10:07
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback: denied in plants II -
David Turell,
2019-07-09, 14:52
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback: denied in plants II -
dhw,
2019-07-10, 10:22
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback: -
David Turell,
2022-04-02, 17:09
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback: -
David Turell,
2022-07-15, 20:31
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback: -
dhw,
2022-07-16, 08:26
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback: - David Turell, 2022-07-16, 14:41
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback: -
dhw,
2022-07-16, 08:26
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback: -
David Turell,
2022-07-15, 20:31
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback: -
David Turell,
2022-04-02, 17:09
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback: denied in plants II -
dhw,
2019-07-10, 10:22
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback: denied in plants II -
David Turell,
2019-07-09, 14:52
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback: denied in plants II -
dhw,
2019-07-09, 10:07
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback: denied in plants II -
David Turell,
2019-07-08, 15:10
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback: denied in plants II -
dhw,
2019-07-08, 10:38
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback: denied in plants II -
David Turell,
2019-07-07, 20:29
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback: denied in plants II -
dhw,
2019-07-07, 11:17
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback: denied in plants II -
David Turell,
2019-07-06, 15:49
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback: denied in plants II -
dhw,
2019-07-06, 08:04
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback: denied in plants II -
David Turell,
2019-07-05, 14:48
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback: denied in plants II -
dhw,
2019-07-05, 12:23
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback: denied in plants II -
David Turell,
2019-07-04, 20:58
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback: denied in plants II -
dhw,
2019-07-04, 10:40
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback: denied in plants II -
David Turell,
2019-07-04, 00:45
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback: denied in plants -
David Turell,
2019-07-03, 23:07
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback in a different form -
David Turell,
2019-01-28, 15:00
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback in a different form -
dhw,
2019-01-28, 13:55
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback in a different form -
David Turell,
2019-01-27, 19:36
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback in a different form -
dhw,
2019-01-27, 12:18
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback in a different form -
David Turell,
2019-01-26, 15:25
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback in a different form -
dhw,
2019-01-26, 13:43
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback in a different form -
David Turell,
2019-01-25, 21:31
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback in a different form -
dhw,
2019-01-25, 10:40
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback in a different form -
David Turell,
2019-01-24, 20:46
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback in a different form -
dhw,
2019-01-24, 10:22
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback in a different form -
David Turell,
2019-01-23, 19:14
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback in a different form -
dhw,
2019-01-23, 13:04
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback in a different form -
David Turell,
2019-01-22, 15:10
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback in a different form -
dhw,
2019-01-22, 11:17
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback in a different form -
David Turell,
2019-01-21, 15:22
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback in a different form -
dhw,
2019-01-21, 13:31
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback in a different form -
David Turell,
2019-01-20, 18:20
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback in a different form -
dhw,
2019-01-20, 12:14
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback; supported III -
dhw,
2018-01-31, 14:16
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback; supported III -
David Turell,
2018-01-30, 19:30
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback; supported II -
David Turell,
2017-04-16, 20:31
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback; supported -
David Turell,
2017-04-16, 16:47
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback; supported -
David Turell,
2017-03-03, 00:28
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback; supported -
dhw,
2017-03-02, 13:11
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback; supported -
David Turell,
2017-03-01, 17:57
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback; denied -
David Turell,
2016-09-21, 19:22
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback; denied -
dhw,
2016-09-21, 12:40
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback; denied -
David Turell,
2016-09-20, 15:55
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback -
David Turell,
2016-02-27, 14:46
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback -
dhw,
2016-02-27, 12:29
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback -
David Turell,
2016-02-26, 14:42
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback -
dhw,
2016-02-26, 12:52
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback -
David Turell,
2016-02-25, 14:49
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback -
dhw,
2016-02-25, 13:40
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback -
David Turell,
2016-02-24, 20:13
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback -
dhw,
2016-02-24, 13:31
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback -
David Turell,
2016-02-23, 15:14
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback -
David Turell,
2015-01-30, 00:58
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback -
David Turell,
2015-01-28, 22:15
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback -
dhw,
2015-01-28, 19:20
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback -
David Turell,
2015-01-28, 00:17
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback -
dhw,
2015-01-27, 20:38
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback -
David Turell,
2015-01-27, 00:44
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback -
dhw,
2015-01-26, 17:35
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback -
David Turell,
2015-01-25, 23:53
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback -
dhw,
2015-01-25, 20:34
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback -
David Turell,
2015-01-25, 00:22
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback -
dhw,
2015-01-24, 18:31
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback -
David Turell,
2015-01-23, 22:22
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback -
dhw,
2015-01-23, 15:44
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback -
David Turell,
2015-01-22, 23:03
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback -
dhw,
2015-01-22, 19:32
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback -
David Turell,
2015-01-21, 23:54
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback - David Turell, 2015-01-21, 23:03
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback -
David Turell,
2015-01-24, 00:36
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback -
dhw,
2015-01-24, 18:17
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback - David Turell, 2015-01-24, 18:28
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback -
dhw,
2015-01-24, 18:17
- Panpsychism Makes a Comeback -
George Jelliss,
2015-01-21, 22:06