Quantum Physics: conscious universe (General)

by David Turell , Monday, June 04, 2018, 14:09 (2362 days ago) @ dhw

dhw: […] I find all of these explanations equally difficult to believe in, but acknowledge that I am wrong one way or another. That is why I would never call any of them “poor and silly”.

DAVID: You have shown the weakness of panpsychism by trying to redefine it by making it equal to God's consciousness. Both come from the recognition that the universe exhibits consciousness.

dhw: When I say I find all three explanations equally difficult to believe in, I mean that I find all three explanations too weak to believe in. Only two of them recognize consciousness in the universe prior to the consciousness of living organisms. My atheistic version of panpsychism is that it begins with primitive consciousness which evolves. This is not “equal to” your God’s top-down consciousness – it is the reverse (bottom-up), and is neither weaker nor stronger than an explanation which entails a supreme consciousness that knows everything from the start.

DAVID: And you have reinvoked an eternal universe, which is entirely questionable, based on current science. The two leading theories are Big Bang or Big Bounce, neither of which allows for your eternity to produce life, as each universe is limited in time. No wonder you remain confused, by accepting all strange theories.

dhw: You yourself recognize the fact that even if the Big Bang is true, we have no idea what preceded it. However, since your God is supposed to have created it, even you must assume that your God pre-existed it, and even you must acknowledge that he could have been creating universes for ever. The Big Bounce allows for eternity, and the Big Bang cannot exclude eternity, and an unknown number of universes or a single eternal universe both allow for an unlimited number of material combinations. And I do not accept any of these strange theories, including the strange theory that there is an eternal, unknown and unknowable, conscious mind that can create and encompass universes.

Both answers make your agnosticism clear and firm.