Quantum Physics: Lights Frozen in Time (General)

by dhw, Saturday, August 20, 2016, 11:57 (2804 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: Quantum results are always affected by the experimenter's conscious choices.
dhw: For me, this alone throws into question your claim that there is such a thing as a “planned construction pattern” with an “integrated quantum plan”.-DAVID: You are incorrect. The particles' properties are well understood. The aspect of the researcher's consciousness affects the result as a wave or particle form, changes in late choice decisions and so forth. All researchers understand the role of conscious decisions.-I am not querying our knowledge of the properties of known particles, and I am not querying the fact that consciousness affects the behaviour of known particles! I just don't see how this proves that they are all part of a plan, let alone an integrated plan, let alone an integrated plan which strongly suggests that God exists. 
 
DHW: For me, the fact that physical reality can only be observed subjectively does not mean there is no objective physical reality. It simply means that we cannot know what that objective reality is. 
DAVID: Reality is behind the quantum wall of probability. This is what Ruth Kastner was trying to tell you.-Please explain how this statement contradicts my own.-dhw: It's a pity they don't give concrete examples. Altering the outcome of events is very different from changing the objects of our perception and shaping our physical reality. It would indeed be astonishing if scientists could prove that by wanting to perceive the sun as a bar of chocolate, I could actually make it into a bar of chocolate. But perhaps I have totally misunderstood what they are saying!

DAVID: They are referring to known examples of 'late choice' experiments when a late decision changes the beginning results! Conscious choice changes results since quanta can be several things at once.-I know what they are referring to. But from these experiments they conclude that the whole of our everyday reality may be an illusion, and that we can shape it as we wish. If you accept this, please give me a concrete example of an everyday physical, perceivable reality outside yourself which you can change through your consciousness alone.
 
dhw: So we are light held in matter (which is a "higher density" light anyway), though this may or may not be a metaphor, our cells are a complex energy interference pattern, and our physical body is an energy field made up of segments of vibration. We know that light is a form of energy, but that does not mean all energy is a form of light, so what does this actually mean? That all matter, energy and vibrations are light, or light is energy plus vibrations? What are these “vibrations”? You must forgive my ignorance, but there are probably others out there who are just as confused as I am.
DAVID: They are making the point that photons (perhaps over-making it), are everywhere. Just as in life protons are everywhere carrying the energy of life.-I have no problem understanding that photons and protons are everywhere, but I'm afraid that doesn't resolve my confusion concerning all the above. -dhw: QUOTE: …Because it is a hologram, every segment contains information about the entire universe. Thus, consciousness is indeed in all things. Light is both the medium and the message.
Firstly, I don't understand why it has to be a hologram. Why can't it simply be what it appears to be: matter and energy layered with information? Why does a hologram enable something to contain information about the entire universe?
DAVID: Because it carries all the information necessary to make an apparent figure before your eyes.-Why must an apparent figure contain information about the entire universe? If it does carry all that information, why can't actual matter and actual energy do the same?-QUOTE: What these concepts tell us is that, at the heart of our universe, there are no separate parts to anything, and that everything is connected to everything else…
Dhw: Now we are linking up with the realms of philosophy and religion, and I find it exciting to see this link being established between mysticism and science.-DAVID: No. The quote contains absolutely true quantum facts! No philosophy here!
-What are you saying ”no” to? I was enthusing over the fact that science (“true quantum facts”) was LINKING UP with philosophy etc., by confirming that everything is connected to everything else, as in certain eastern religions. -DAVID: I hope you have learned from this. Bohm, whom I've read, made very important points to consider about the strangeness of the quantum world we live in.

All our discussions are part of an ongoing learning process, for which I am extremely grateful. The world we take for granted is just as strange as the quantum world (but that doesn't make it more or less “real”), since we have absolutely no idea how life originated, what it actually is, or how matter can be aware of itself. I don't know how much light will be shed on these mysteries by studies of the quantum world, but somehow I doubt that all quantum physicists will eventually conclude that there is a God hiding behind the “quantum wall of probability”.