Quantum Physics: conscious universe (General)

by dhw, Saturday, June 02, 2018, 08:22 (2365 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: To repeat: "All of this is at the level of energy particles which follow quantum rules and then join together to form the matter we appreciate." We all know the bus is solid. But matter appears out of the basic particles and constantly offers only one other ingredient requirement: consciousness. You don't want to face an obvious conclusion: whose consciousness, or is the consciousness free-floating and based on nothing or no one?

dhw: This whole website revolves around what you have quite rightly expressed as a question. It is not a conclusion.

DAVID: You have accepted the conclusion that consciousness is required.

dhw: Then why do you say I don’t want to face up to it? I have accepted the conclusion that consciousness is required for all the complexities of life and evolution, and I have offered three possible conclusions as to what might have been the origin of that consciousness: 1) your God; 2) chance; 3) an atheistic form of panpsychism. I find it impossible to choose any of these, although I continually face up to the questions you have asked. I suspect that what you really mean is that I haven’t accepted your conclusion that God did it.

DAVID: Of course you haven't. Panpsychism is a version of consciousness, chance is not conscious. What is left?

I haven’t what? You tell me I have accepted that consciousness is required. I do indeed agree that consciousness is required for the complexities of life and evolution, but I don’t know whether the origin of that consciousness is God (conscious), chance (not conscious), or atheistic panpsychism (i.e. a primitive consciousness in materials, which evolves into the more complex forms we now know). Please tell me what is the point at issue.