DILEMMAS: A Response to DHW (Evolution)

by David Turell , Wednesday, November 19, 2014, 01:29 (3656 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID (17 November): I think that is the case. See the Spetner review.
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> dhw: Gratifying though it is to have converted you from “not at all” on Sunday to “I think that is the case” on Monday, I can't help wondering what you will believe on Tuesday.-Sunday: -> dhw: Then you must argue that all the species, extinct and extant, including the monarch butterfly, were necessary for the existence of humans.-> David: Not at all. I am accepting Tony's pattern approach as well as Spetner's which is similar to my pattern approach. Set the original stages in patterns, and let variation by the organisms supply the bushy look. -I have misled your thinking. My answer was obtuse. Under my thinking, much of the bush is created by variation from the original patterns. If the IM or the NREH is guided and controlled as I think, then monarchs were not completely planned in the beginning of life, but developed at the right moment in time again under implanted guidance in the genome. It is the balance in nature that is necessary to have humans as the custodians, as Genesis states, as well as having life last for 3.8 billion years until our arrival.
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> dhw: I'm also surprised that anyone could go less far than you in theorizing about the IM, since you believe it to be capable of nothing more than minor adaptations.-Once the basic patterns are established adaptations will make the bush, as pointed out by Tony, in his progressive computer program analysis. I agreed with that in the past as you noted then.-> 
> dhw: (Thank you for the review. I really appreciate the way you keep updating us on the latest research and publications - and I'm sure there are plenty of others who follow these posts of yours.)-Thank you.
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> dhw: Since the earliest forms of life were able to reproduce and must have contained the potential for evolution, it stands to reason that the information (I'd prefer to call it mechanism) for life and evolution must have been there at the beginning of life and evolution. But that doesn't mean God preprogrammed every conceivable innovation and millions of natural wonders right from the beginning!-Codes contain information. I don't know why you want to use the term mechanism. The information runs the mechanisms that create life and evolutions changes in phenotype. I'm into I'll repeat. God planned and created the basic patterns. The rest was later modifications of the basics. Pentadactyl limbs, livers, kidneys, lungs in all mammals as an example. -> DAVID: for me it is irrational to think amorphous energy somehow by chance organized itself into a constructive consciousness.[/i]
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> Of course it is. Just as irrational as energy having always had a constructive consciousness that came from nowhere and knew how to make universes and living cells before universes and living cells had ever existed.-Something started all of this. Why is there anything? There has to be a first cause which is capable of 'doing'. Amorphous energy cannot do anything, but exist.