DILEMMAS: A Response to DHW (Evolution)

by dhw, Tuesday, November 11, 2014, 13:15 (3663 days ago) @ Balance_Maintained

DHW: Your computer “intermediaries” have been designed for a clear purpose, which is why the analogy is unhelpful. (See below before you jump for joy).
TONY: Not for a clear purpose. Computers are not purposed when they are constructed beyond their ability to perform calculations. The hardware itself is platform agnostic, much the same way planets are.-Thank you for the correction. I'm afraid I'm now even more confused by the computer analogy, as I thought you were trying to prove to me that mass extinctions had a clear purpose. I don't understand computers anyway, so it would help me much more if you could explain the purpose of mass extinctions directly, without such analogies! -TONY: What if the end goal was not one lonely planet with a few million species in the middle of a vast and otherwise empty universe? What if the plan was a vast universe teaming with near infinite variety of life? IF the plan was to create just the Earth, and just the (relatively) few species that live on it, then why create the rest of the Universe at all? [...]
DHW: Good question. This hypothesis depends on there being life elsewhere in the universe, which no-one has (yet) found. Some folk say the universe is “fine tuned” to support life on Earth, which would answer the question but, just like your ET life hypothesis and your computer analogy, fails to explain the need for mass extinctions on Earth.-TONY: No, the hypothesis depends on there being the INTENT to create/propagate life elsewhere in the Universe.-So God had to create and kill off millions (OK, not billions - fair comment) of species on Earth because you believe he intended/intends to create life elsewhere in the Universe. Sorry, but I can't see the logic.-DHW: Microbial life was and remains essential to all life forms. Bacteria have survived since life began. I'm asking about life forms that were obliterated. Your computer analogy fits those elements essential to life, but doesn't tell me why your God had to create and destroy billions [now corrected to millions] of species in order to come up with humans (David's “purpose”), or in order to fulfil whatever other purpose you think he had in mind.
TONY: Because they were programmed to do a certain thing. When that thing was completed, their program was terminated. Their task, their purpose, there very reason for existing no longer existed. They were done, spent, finished. -You keep telling me that they had completed their certain thing, their task, their purpose, and you repeat this argument with the famous quote from Ecclesiastes and the following cart-before-horse observation:
TONY: Your basic assertion is that things should be "once made always made", and THAT comes from a rigid refusal to believe that creatures serve a purpose. If you saw that all things had a purpose, then the concept of what happens when something has served it's purpose would not be so alien to you.-I don't know who you are quoting with your “once made always made”, but it's certainly not me. I accept the end of all things as a basic reality. If I saw that all things have a purpose, then I would indeed see that they are not needed once they've fulfilled that purpose, but when I ask you what that purpose is, you merely repeat that there is a purpose! Then comes the following variation on the theme:-TONY: I've already told you, but you aren't listening. They were created to prepare the way for future developments. To 'set up the environmental variables'. That was their purpose. Once that task was complete, they were no longer necessary.-What future developments? How do you expect me to believe that the extinction of millions of species was necessary for future developments if you don't tell me what those developments are? Your “basic assertion” is that “all things had a purpose”, and then all you tell me is that their purpose was to serve a future purpose! However, you have hypothesized as an end goal God's intention “to create/propagate life elsewhere in the Universe”, so is that it? If so, since I just can't see the logic (as above), please explain to me in plain language why it was necessary for God to create and kill off millions of species on Earth in order to prepare the way for life elsewhere in the universe.