God and Energy (The nature of a \'Creator\')

by dhw, Thursday, June 05, 2014, 16:12 (3823 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: Meanwhile, let's adopt your theory, and assume that "pure energy" (your God) consciously created matter. In that case, all the processes you're outlining have to be those used by your God to create the universe, and he has to BE all the so-called pure energy particles you refer to, unless you're saying his pure energy is different from that which he used to form our universe. I don't know why you should see it as a problem, since it fits in perfectly well with your panentheism. But instead you say: "No one can know if an eternal intelligence has a recognizable form or structure." How can you separate your first cause intelligence from your first cause energy? I'll wait for your response before going any further.-DAVID: I've left your whole thought. Simply we think differently. You always seek exactitide. I accept an always existing energy as a first cause, and I think it must be intelligent because of the complexities that we see created by it. And I stop there. I cannot imagine how it works, and I don't worry about it. Simply, slopilly organized energy couldn't possibly create what we have. There was probably some type of quantum energy organization we don't understand, just as we don't understand consciousness. That is my challenge to you. Explain consciousness. You are asking me a question at the same level.-In order to make headway in this discussion, I began by accepting your basic premise: an always existing and intelligent energy as first cause. I'm not asking you how it works, because you've been telling me how it worked when it made the universe. And I'm not focusing now on the unanswerable problem of consciousness, though it will arise later. I'm merely pointing out that if God is pure energy, and he used pure energy to make matter, then the particles of energy he used must have been himself, and all the processes you have been referring to as the current theories (such as virtual particles being transformed into a vacuum bubble) must have been the way your God used himself to create the matter we know. What else could he have used, since according to your scenario nothing else existed? I still don't know why this thought bothers you ... unless it's a reluctance to think of divinity in terms of gluons, quarks and plasma.