How God works (Introduction)

by Balance_Maintained , U.S.A., Sunday, January 20, 2013, 00:19 (4327 days ago) @ dhw

Far from "all" the suffering (I'm not unaware of self-centredness, vanity, greed, sadism etc., as listed above), but we needn't argue about the proportion, or about the need for suffering in the world we know, which I've always accepted. My focus in all these discussions has been on the NATURE of God as revealed by the world you believe he has created. You rightly drew attention to love, joy, happiness and sorrow, and I assume that "whatever designed you was aware of those emotions" also meant that he himself felt them. (You have said that God is hurt by the suffering in the world.) My argument here is that if your God as first cause created us all from nothing, he could not have been "aware" of anything that was not already WITHIN himself, including the evil potential of self-centredness. In other words, he could not have made us in such a way that we would feel things HE HIMSELF WAS UNAWARE OF AND DIDN'T FEEL. (Please don't try to answer yet. This post needs to be swallowed whole!)
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> You have constantly quoted the bible to prove how good God is. You even gave me a verse from Revelation as evidence, but when replaced in its immediate context it led to problems connected with physical resurrection, Christ's 1000 year reign, and eternal death for sinners organized with split-second timing ... all of which were your own interpretation of the scriptures. If God exists ... and I remain open-minded on the subject ... his nature is of concern to me. You have, I'm sure with the very best of intentions, tried to reassure me, but despite the many excellent arguments concerning the way the world has to be (whether created by God or not), and concerning all the good things your God has also created, I can see nothing other than selected quotes from various mainly unknown authors to even suggest that his nature is any different from the mixture we see all around us. Hardly surprising if he created man in his own image!
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> But you did give me the perfect answer: "I find no reason to doubt the things that we can not yet prove. That is the textbook definition of faith my friend, and that is the only thing that separates the A/Theist from the agnostic." It may be advisable for us to leave it at that!-
I have found answers to some of your questions regarding the logistics, but I need to research them further before responding, and my time is going to be limited for the next week or so. But I promise that I will reply in full asap. -The problem I have always had with this debate is twofold. First, as I mentioned previously, nothing is 'evil' separate from intent, and second, you consistently blame him for human actions. -As to some of your other comments, the bible writers are no more unknown or unknowable than you, I, or David. We can know them through their writings, as confirmed by their contemporaries, as I know you and David by your writings and the commentary of your contemporaries. Most of the Bible writers were talked about in great detail, and much of their personality is evident. -As for YHWH being like us, I would say that he is to us what the best of men is to the worst of men, multiplied by an unknowable amount. There is no love, anger, or power greater than his, but neither is there any mercy or justice as great. -I do not shrink back when I think of the devastation that he has certainly caused in the past because I know, all things being equal, had their been any decency or goodness left in even one of the people destroyed, he would have found a means to spare them, as he has proven to do time and again. So, I can take the hard things that he has done, without calling them evil, any more than I think putting a serial killer down is evil.

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What is the purpose of living? How about, 'to reduce needless suffering. It seems to me to be a worthy purpose.