Shedding Light On How Cells Communicate (Introduction)

by dhw, Thursday, November 29, 2012, 13:08 (4378 days ago) @ BBella

BBELLA: Then we will put our creative abilities to a greater use for the good of the whole and no telling what we will become and what we can achieve for the greater good of all. -So whether the ATI has self awareness of itself or not, or awareness of us or not, for me, is a moot point - since, the greatest quality of ATI/God is this malleable energy that humans have been created from and with. What we can create and become (because of this energy) is also what ATI creates and becomes (which is my main idea I've been pushing toward with this post). "We" are one and the same. What we (us/ the ATI) can become (together) is so much greater than any one part that we are, no matter how great that one part is.-This is a very rich post, and it's only the above conclusion I find problematical. Of course I have no answers, so please forgive me if my response is too earthbound!
 
For me, there are two major issues: 1) Is the ATI self-aware or not? 2) Is my individual identity a permanent part of the ATI?-Your "good of the whole" clearly refers to the ATI, but the "greater good of all" could refer to human life on Earth. Since this is finite (you once spoke of souls choosing to be reborn, but reincarnation is not much use to me if I have no knowledge of having been here before), you're presumably referring to an afterlife ... especially as you talk of NDEs and OBEs. This is already a colossal leap of faith, but even if I were to leap with you, it still presents major problems.-If we were deliberately created by a self-aware power, it's inconceivable to me that such a power would not have had a purpose, and that takes us into ontological, theological and teleological territory we'd better stay clear of for the moment. But if we evolved from a mechanism that assembled itself out of universal energy without self-awareness, the only self-awareness within ATI will be ours (barring other life forms that have evolved like ourselves). And so an afterlife will consist of our human spirits minus our bodies creating...what? Are we to love spiritually, play with never-to-grow-up children, hear telepathic symphonies, taste virtual chocolate, play virtual cricket for ever? On Earth, the rest of our good side is spent putting right the wrongs of our bad side (so where do the tyrants, murderers, rapists, child-abusers fit into the "greater good" of the afterlife?) or the ills caused by Nature/the ATI. Will that carry over into the next world? What else can there be if ours is the only self-awareness? If we can only think as humans now, why should we think otherwise then? And what else can you visualize that would be meaningful to us if the ATI does turn out to be self-aware? -You also seem to be implying that the spirit world in which we shall find ourselves is more real/meaningful/creatively "good" than this one. In that case, why did the ATI bother to create this one in the first place? (Inevitably we're back to purposes.)-"We are one and the same"..."What we/us/the ATI can become (together) is so much greater than any one part that we are, no matter how great that one part is": to me this means loss of identity. And if I'm not aware of myself as myself, I may as well not be part of this great whole. The experiences of some NDErs do, however, suggest retention of identity AND a merging with something greater ... a feeling also experienced by mystics. It's very attractive, but quite apart from all the questions I've asked above about a possible afterlife, the sceptic in me also asks why so few resuscitated patients have any such experience, and whether the feeling of oneness that I too occasionally have is not quite simply going to resolve itself as my personal materials and energies returning (impersonally and unconsciously) to the great unconscious ATI. Whatever may lie ahead, might we not eventually long for perfect peace anyway? And what could be more peaceful than eternal death? So why bother with a spiritual world? (Purposes again!)-In brief, without my individual, self-conscious identity I may as well not be there. If I keep it, what can I do with it for ever and ever? Without its own self-conscious identity, the ATI will also be unaware of us. If it does have a self-conscious identity, it must have created us deliberately (and let's not forget that it preceded us by an eternity), so we're into the realm of interpreting its purposes and its nature, which you seem to take for granted is devoted to "the greater good of all".
 
***********-I've just read David's response. I certainly agree with you, David, about the beauty of BBella's ideas, but as I understand them, they do not necessarily chime in with your belief that the UI is self-aware and created us deliberately. This belief to me makes it inevitable that we discuss its purpose and nature (see above), but you always point out that this can only be pure speculation. In other words, you prefer to remain agnostic on the subject. An afterlife and the self-awareness of the UI or the ATI are also pure (though fascinating) speculation. So won't you come and sit with me?