Darwinist ignorance and confusion (Introduction)
David has drawn our attention to a lengthy article by Elliott Sober, entitled Did Darwin write the Origin backwards? His conclusion is: "You do not need to assume that natural selection has been at work to argue for common ancestry; in fact, what Darwin thinks you need to defend hypotheses of common ancestry are traits whose presence cannot be attributed to natural selection. This is the evidential asymmetry that separates common ancestry from natural selection in his theory. So, did Darwin write the Origin backwards? The book is in the right causal order; but evidentially, it is backwards." -On the previous page, Sober wrote: "But when the causal and the evidential orderings differ, which should be followed? There is no right or wrong here. Darwin led with the part of his theory that has causal priority, but he could have done otherwise. There are many good ways to write a book." So just what is the point of the article?-Matt writes: "Natural selection ... despite its flaws ... is still the most usable theory of evolution. Science is, was, and will always be about the most usable explanations."-Natural selection is not THE theory of evolution. It's PART of the theory. And the one point Elliott Sober makes (albeit indirectly) which I applaud is that natural selection does not explain the origin of species. As has been pointed out many times on this forum, it does not originate anything ... it can only work on things that already exist. Innovations are brought about by mutations and adaptations to changing conditions, and natural selection - although of course it is integral to the whole process - simply ensures that those creatures/ organs best suited to cope with the conditions will survive. This seems perfectly logical to me, and if there are flaws in the theory of evolution, I would suggest they lie in the area of innovation rather than in that of natural selection.
Complete thread:
- Darwinist ignorance and confusion -
David Turell,
2010-06-09, 20:52
- Darwinist ignorance and confusion -
xeno6696,
2010-06-09, 23:15
- Darwinist ignorance and confusion -
dhw,
2010-06-10, 22:32
- Darwinist ignorance and confusion -
xeno6696,
2010-06-11, 01:01
- Darwinist ignorance and confusion -
David Turell,
2010-06-11, 01:56
- Darwinist ignorance and confusion -
xeno6696,
2010-06-11, 02:37
- Darwinist ignorance and confusion -
David Turell,
2010-06-11, 05:36
- Darwinist ignorance and confusion -
xeno6696,
2010-06-11, 21:26
- Darwinist ignorance and confusion -
David Turell,
2010-06-12, 01:42
- Darwinist ignorance and confusion -
xeno6696,
2010-06-12, 03:04
- Darwinist ignorance and confusion - David Turell, 2010-06-12, 05:46
- Darwinist ignorance and confusion -
dhw,
2010-06-12, 11:23
- Darwinist ignorance and confusion -
xeno6696,
2010-06-13, 17:14
- Darwinist ignorance and confusion -
David Turell,
2010-06-13, 19:20
- Darwinist ignorance and confusion -
xeno6696,
2010-06-13, 21:39
- Darwinist ignorance and confusion -
David Turell,
2010-06-13, 22:25
- Darwinist ignorance and confusion -
George Jelliss,
2010-06-14, 00:00
- Darwinist ignorance and confusion - David Turell, 2010-06-14, 17:14
- Darwinist ignorance and confusion -
George Jelliss,
2010-06-14, 00:00
- Darwinist ignorance and confusion -
David Turell,
2010-06-13, 22:25
- Darwinist ignorance and confusion -
xeno6696,
2010-06-13, 21:39
- Darwinist ignorance and confusion -
dhw,
2010-06-14, 11:55
- Darwinist ignorance and confusion - David Turell, 2010-06-14, 17:05
- Darwinist ignorance and confusion -
xeno6696,
2010-06-15, 01:33
- Darwinist ignorance and confusion - dhw, 2010-06-15, 16:45
- Darwinist ignorance and confusion -
David Turell,
2010-06-13, 19:20
- Darwinist ignorance and confusion -
xeno6696,
2010-06-13, 17:14
- Darwinist ignorance and confusion -
xeno6696,
2010-06-12, 03:04
- Darwinist ignorance and confusion -
David Turell,
2010-06-12, 01:42
- Darwinist ignorance and confusion -
xeno6696,
2010-06-11, 21:26
- Darwinist ignorance and confusion -
David Turell,
2010-06-11, 05:36
- Darwinist ignorance and confusion -
xeno6696,
2010-06-11, 02:37
- Darwinist ignorance and confusion -
David Turell,
2010-06-11, 01:56
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics -
David Turell,
2010-11-03, 20:09
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics -
dhw,
2010-11-05, 12:42
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics -
David Turell,
2010-11-05, 13:46
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics -
dhw,
2010-11-10, 16:28
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics -
David Turell,
2010-11-12, 18:57
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics -
xeno6696,
2010-11-14, 20:01
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics -
David Turell,
2010-11-14, 21:04
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics -
xeno6696,
2010-11-14, 22:01
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics -
David Turell,
2010-11-15, 05:38
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics -
xeno6696,
2010-11-15, 21:54
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics -
David Turell,
2010-11-16, 05:24
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics -
xeno6696,
2010-11-17, 02:18
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics -
David Turell,
2010-11-17, 17:54
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics -
xeno6696,
2010-11-17, 21:46
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics -
David Turell,
2010-11-18, 15:08
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics -
BBella,
2010-11-18, 22:15
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics -
David Turell,
2010-11-19, 14:34
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics -
BBella,
2010-11-19, 18:06
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics - David Turell, 2010-11-20, 01:12
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics -
dhw,
2010-11-20, 14:13
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics - Balance_Maintained, 2010-11-23, 21:20
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics -
BBella,
2010-11-19, 18:06
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics -
David Turell,
2010-11-19, 14:34
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics -
BBella,
2010-11-18, 22:15
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics -
David Turell,
2010-11-18, 15:08
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics -
xeno6696,
2010-11-17, 21:46
- Darwinist ignorance: vestigial organs? -
David Turell,
2023-11-29, 18:03
- Darwinist ignorance: vestigial organs? Adult thymus -
David Turell,
2023-12-07, 18:54
- Darwinist ignorance: vestigial organs? -
David Turell,
2024-02-21, 18:21
- Darwinist ignorance: vestigial organs? rete ovarii - David Turell, 2024-02-28, 17:35
- Darwinist ignorance: vestigial organs? -
David Turell,
2024-02-21, 18:21
- Darwinist ignorance: vestigial organs? Adult thymus -
David Turell,
2023-12-07, 18:54
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics -
David Turell,
2010-11-17, 17:54
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics -
xeno6696,
2010-11-17, 21:45
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics - David Turell, 2010-11-18, 15:02
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics -
xeno6696,
2010-11-17, 02:18
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics -
David Turell,
2010-11-16, 05:24
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics -
xeno6696,
2010-11-15, 21:54
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics -
David Turell,
2010-11-15, 05:38
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics -
xeno6696,
2010-11-14, 22:01
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics -
David Turell,
2010-11-14, 21:04
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics -
dhw,
2010-11-16, 13:24
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics -
David Turell,
2010-11-16, 23:26
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics -
dhw,
2010-11-18, 13:18
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics -
David Turell,
2010-11-18, 15:17
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics -
BBella,
2010-11-18, 22:12
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics -
David Turell,
2010-11-19, 14:32
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics - BBella, 2010-11-19, 17:56
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics -
David Turell,
2010-11-19, 14:32
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics -
dhw,
2010-11-19, 13:52
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics -
David Turell,
2010-11-19, 14:41
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics -
dhw,
2010-11-20, 14:10
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics -
David Turell,
2010-11-21, 15:45
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics -
dhw,
2010-11-22, 14:30
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics -
David Turell,
2010-11-22, 15:07
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics - David Turell, 2010-11-23, 00:49
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics -
BBella,
2010-11-23, 06:03
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics - David Turell, 2010-11-23, 14:40
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics -
dhw,
2010-11-23, 13:55
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics -
David Turell,
2010-11-23, 14:50
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics -
David Turell,
2010-11-23, 15:16
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics -
dhw,
2010-11-25, 09:01
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics - David Turell, 2010-11-25, 14:38
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics -
dhw,
2010-11-25, 09:01
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics -
David Turell,
2010-11-23, 15:16
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics -
David Turell,
2010-11-23, 14:50
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics - Balance_Maintained, 2010-11-23, 21:40
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics -
David Turell,
2010-11-22, 15:07
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics -
dhw,
2010-11-22, 14:30
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics -
David Turell,
2010-11-21, 15:45
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics -
dhw,
2010-11-20, 14:10
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics -
Balance_Maintained,
2010-11-23, 21:36
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics -
David Turell,
2010-11-24, 01:38
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics -
David Turell,
2010-11-24, 01:47
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics - romansh, 2010-12-12, 22:44
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics -
David Turell,
2010-11-24, 01:47
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics -
David Turell,
2010-11-24, 01:38
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics -
David Turell,
2010-11-19, 14:41
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics -
BBella,
2010-11-18, 22:12
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics -
David Turell,
2010-11-18, 15:17
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics -
dhw,
2010-11-18, 13:18
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics -
David Turell,
2018-06-12, 19:39
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics -
dhw,
2018-06-13, 12:41
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics -
David Turell,
2018-06-13, 15:16
- Darwinist ignorance: new genes needed for new animals -
David Turell,
2018-06-13, 19:14
- Darwinist ignorance: new genes needed for new animals - David Turell, 2018-06-13, 20:09
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics -
dhw,
2018-06-14, 17:47
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics - David Turell, 2018-06-14, 20:01
- Darwinist ignorance: new genes needed for new animals -
David Turell,
2018-06-13, 19:14
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics -
David Turell,
2018-06-13, 15:16
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics -
dhw,
2018-06-13, 12:41
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics -
David Turell,
2010-11-16, 23:26
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics -
xeno6696,
2010-11-14, 20:01
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics -
David Turell,
2010-11-12, 18:57
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics -
dhw,
2010-11-10, 16:28
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics -
David Turell,
2010-11-05, 13:46
- Darwinist ignorance, confusion & epigenetics -
dhw,
2010-11-05, 12:42
- Darwinist ignorance and confusion -
xeno6696,
2010-06-11, 01:01
- Darwinist ignorance and confusion -
dhw,
2010-06-10, 22:32
- Darwinist ignorance and confusion -
xeno6696,
2010-06-09, 23:15