Natural Wonders & Evolution (Evolution)

by David Turell , Wednesday, September 11, 2019, 20:14 (1898 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: I view your so-called alterations as major innovations , in example of the foot to flipper case. A wrist and an ankle are quite different, same bones, different shapes and muscle attachments, and very different motions as a result. But I agree the word alteration means innovation. My difference is the need for design at minor and major levels is quite different.

dhw: The word alteration does NOT mean innovation! Innovation is something new, whereas alteration means changing something that already exists. But sometimes it is difficult to draw a borderline between the two. The whale is a much clearer example than wrist and ankle, since we have a direct environmental link. Legs turned into flippers, as a means of adaptation from land life to water life. This, plus all the other adaptations, led to speciation. Of course there is a difference between major and minor adaptations, and you have conceded that minor “epigenetic” changes may be autonomous. My proposal is that the same autonomous mechanism may have been responsible for major adaptations/innovations. Your fixed beliefs will not allow for such a possibility. That’s it.

I don't understand your definitions. An alteration is an innovation of small degree. Yes, that is it. Design requires complex mental input, as in God did it.

DAVID: Again I'm with Adler and our specialness. You won't accept that point, which is major to me.

dhw: I keep accepting our specialness! But that does not mean your God set out with the one and only purpose of designing us, had decided not to do so for 3.X billion years, and therefore had to cover the time by specially designing the rest of the evolutionary bush, as you repeat below.

No you don't. The degree of specialness you agree to is not what Adler proposes in his book. He shows that we are so special God created us and has to exist.

dhw: […] please explain what you meant by your God wanting/desiring the entire bush of life.

DAVID: Of course God wanted the bush. It was an absolute requirement to cover the time the whole process took. But I won't leave the concept that we are so special we were His goal. Certainly God knew what was required.

dhw: So you are confirming the above, and you have no idea why he chose this method of fulfilling his one and only purpose!

Of course I have no idea. Why should I? I accept what God does what God does for His own reasons! You constantly want to analyze Him in as if you can in human terms.

DAVID: And I still won't guess at His reasoning, much as you like to do it. Pure guessing if the Biblical writings are ignored.

dhw: It’s not that you won’t guess at his reasoning. You wrote: “Haven’t you realized by now, I have no idea why God chose to evolve humans over time?” (See also under “Unanswered questions”): If you can’t see any logic behind this fixed belief of yours, maybe it’s just possible that the whole bush, including humans, was designed (or was given the means to design itself) to satisfy his wants/desires, as you suggested earlier on this thread!

I guessed because you asked me to and I politely did so. I have no idea because I don't question His motives, as you do in a humanizing way.