on animal cognition: do animals have consciousness (Introduction)
This author says no. They are conscious but show no sign of introspection:
http://nautil.us/issue/75/story/the-tricky-problem-with-other-minds?mc_cid=683ff8ce07&a...
"...research on animal behavior often involves stimuli that induce significant experiences in people—stimuli that make us feel fear, pain, or pleasure. Some scientists, including esteemed ones, suggest, like Darwin, that because such stimuli make us feel a certain way, if an animal responds similarly, it must feel what we do. For example, the primatologist Frans de Waal expressed this sentiment when he wrote, “If closely related species act the same, the underlying mental processes are probably the same.” And Jane Goodall states, as a matter of fact, that “animals feel pleasure and sadness, excitement and resentment, depression, fear and pain.”13 She “knows” what animals experience because she has seen signifiers of these emotions in their behavior. But if all we had to do to link conscious states like feelings to behavior was to observe behavior, we wouldn’t need arduous scientific research. Mere observation is not sufficient.
***
"The human mind, for example, is now commonly thought of as encompassing conscious and non-conscious aspects. And much of what we humans do as we make our way through daily life is believed to be controlled by the so-called “cognitive unconscious.” While some cognitively processed information makes its way into the conscious mind, most does not.
***
"The fact that some of our cognitive mechanisms are shared with other animals, means that the choice is not between whether complex animal behavior is due to conditioning or consciousness. Non-conscious cognition is an intermediate source of behavioral control, and consciousness should not be assumed to underlie behavior, even complex behavior, unless non-conscious processes can be ruled out.
"Many find it hard to imagine that these kinds of behaviors can be carried out non-consciously in animals since we humans are usually conscious when we do such things ourselves. But the scientific question in an experiment on humans or animals is not whether the organism has the capacity for consciousness in some general sense, but whether consciousness specifically accounts for the behavior that was studied. If this is not tested, the statement that consciousness was involved is not warranted scientifically.
***
"The fact that animals can only respond nonverbally means there is no contrasting class of response that can be used to distinguish conscious from non-conscious processes. Elegant studies show that findings based on non-verbal responses in research on episodic memory, mental time travel, theory of mind, and subjective self-awareness in animals typically do not qualify as compelling evidence for conscious control of behavior. Such results are better accounted in “leaner” terms; that is, by non-conscious control processes. This does not mean that the animals lacked conscious awareness. It simply means that the results of the studies in question do not support the involvement of consciousness in the control of the behavior tested.
***
"The fact that animals can only respond nonverbally means there is no contrasting class of response that can be used to distinguish conscious from non-conscious processes. Elegant studies show that findings based on non-verbal responses in research on episodic memory, mental time travel, theory of mind, and subjective self-awareness in animals typically do not qualify as compelling evidence for conscious control of behavior. Such results are better accounted in “leaner” terms; that is, by non-conscious control processes. This does not mean that the animals lacked conscious awareness. It simply means that the results of the studies in question do not support the involvement of consciousness in the control of the behavior tested.
***
"Tulving distinguished between noetic and autonoetic consciousness. Noetic consciousness, he proposed, is the awareness of facts—this is food, that is dangerous, a potential mate is present. Autonoetic consciousness, on the other hand, he said, is the awareness that YOU are the one having the experience. The latter kind of awareness requires a sense of self in time. This is not simply the ability to make a decision that has an impact on future behavior. It instead involves the ability to engage in mental time travel—to envision yourself with a personal past and a hypothetical future (or futures). Tulving suggested that while other animals can engage in future oriented behaviors, and may have noetic experiences, only humans have autonoetic consciousness. (my bold)
***
"The difficulty in scientifically measuring consciousness in animals means that we may never truly know for certain what goes on in their minds. But maybe this is not the most important question scientifically. Perhaps we should be more focused on cognitive and behavioral capacities that are clearly shared with, and measurable in, other animals. Some of these shared capacities have clearly contributed to the evolution of our kind of consciousness, and may make possible some form of awareness in other animals, even if the capacities they possess do not make them conscious in the way we are."
Comment: Note my bold of a quote. The author and I agree. Humans have consciousness. Both animals and we are conscious. Very long article worth reading, which I think supports Adler's view.
Complete thread:
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
David Turell,
2016-04-09, 16:12
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
dhw,
2016-04-10, 14:09
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
David Turell,
2016-04-11, 01:02
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
dhw,
2016-04-11, 13:30
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
David Turell,
2016-04-11, 15:41
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
dhw,
2016-04-12, 14:52
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
David Turell,
2016-04-12, 16:15
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
dhw,
2016-04-13, 12:27
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
David Turell,
2016-04-13, 15:07
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
dhw,
2016-04-14, 15:49
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
David Turell,
2016-04-14, 17:44
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
dhw,
2016-04-15, 14:20
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
David Turell,
2016-04-15, 16:11
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
dhw,
2016-04-16, 09:19
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
David Turell,
2016-04-16, 15:59
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
dhw,
2016-04-17, 13:06
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
David Turell,
2016-04-17, 15:17
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
dhw,
2016-04-18, 14:05
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
David Turell,
2016-04-18, 18:11
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
dhw,
2016-04-19, 13:26
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
David Turell,
2016-04-19, 15:24
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
dhw,
2016-04-20, 12:44
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
David Turell,
2016-04-20, 19:09
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
dhw,
2016-04-21, 13:41
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
David Turell,
2016-04-22, 02:46
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
dhw,
2016-04-22, 15:05
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
David Turell,
2016-04-22, 19:37
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
dhw,
2016-04-23, 13:09
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition - David Turell, 2016-04-23, 15:57
- on animal cognition. A thoughtful essay -
David Turell,
2016-12-09, 01:37
- on animal cognition. A thoughtful essay -
dhw,
2016-12-09, 18:00
- on animal cognition. A thoughtful essay -
David Turell,
2016-12-09, 19:10
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2019-02-14, 23:38
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- on animal cognition: do animals have consciousness -
David Turell,
2019-08-29, 23:47
- on animal cognition: do animals have consciousness -
dhw,
2019-08-30, 09:59
- on animal cognition: do animals have consciousness - David Turell, 2019-08-30, 16:43
- on animal cognition: do animals have consciousness -
dhw,
2019-08-30, 09:59
- on animal cognition. honey bee math skills -
David Turell,
2019-02-14, 23:38
- on animal cognition. A thoughtful essay -
David Turell,
2016-12-09, 19:10
- on animal cognition. A thoughtful essay -
dhw,
2016-12-09, 18:00
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
dhw,
2016-04-23, 13:09
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
David Turell,
2016-04-22, 19:37
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
dhw,
2016-04-22, 15:05
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
David Turell,
2016-04-22, 02:46
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
dhw,
2016-04-21, 13:41
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
David Turell,
2016-04-20, 19:09
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
dhw,
2016-04-20, 12:44
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
David Turell,
2016-05-29, 15:58
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
dhw,
2016-05-30, 09:23
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
David Turell,
2016-05-30, 15:12
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
dhw,
2016-05-31, 13:26
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
David Turell,
2016-06-01, 01:43
- By FRANS de WAAL: more comment -
David Turell,
2016-06-11, 21:28
- By FRANS de WAAL: more comment from him - David Turell, 2016-06-30, 17:32
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David Turell,
2016-11-09, 17:23
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dhw,
2016-11-10, 13:14
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
David Turell,
2016-11-10, 21:01
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
dhw,
2016-11-11, 11:46
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
David Turell,
2016-11-11, 15:04
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
dhw,
2016-11-12, 12:40
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
David Turell,
2016-11-12, 18:33
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dhw,
2016-11-13, 13:17
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
David Turell,
2016-11-13, 21:16
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
dhw,
2016-11-14, 12:12
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
David Turell,
2016-11-14, 17:57
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
dhw,
2016-11-15, 14:01
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
David Turell,
2016-11-15, 20:20
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
dhw,
2016-11-16, 12:26
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
David Turell,
2016-11-16, 20:20
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
dhw,
2016-11-17, 12:40
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
David Turell,
2016-11-17, 19:54
- FRANS de WAAL: language and cognition -
David Turell,
2017-01-14, 15:47
- FRANS de WAAL: language and cognition -
dhw,
2017-01-15, 11:51
- FRANS de WAAL: language and cognition -
David Turell,
2017-01-15, 15:30
- FRANS de WAAL: language and cognition -
David Turell,
2019-05-27, 18:38
- FRANS de WAAL: language and cognition -
dhw,
2019-05-28, 09:50
- FRANS de WAAL: language and cognition - David Turell, 2019-05-28, 18:10
- FRANS de WAAL: language and cognition -
dhw,
2019-05-28, 09:50
- FRANS de WAAL: language and cognition -
David Turell,
2019-05-27, 18:38
- FRANS de WAAL: language and cognition -
David Turell,
2017-01-15, 15:30
- FRANS de WAAL: language and cognition -
dhw,
2017-01-15, 11:51
- FRANS de WAAL: language and cognition -
David Turell,
2017-01-14, 15:47
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
David Turell,
2016-11-17, 19:54
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
dhw,
2016-11-17, 12:40
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
David Turell,
2016-11-16, 20:20
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
dhw,
2016-11-16, 12:26
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
David Turell,
2016-11-15, 20:20
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
dhw,
2016-11-15, 14:01
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
David Turell,
2016-11-14, 17:57
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
dhw,
2016-11-14, 12:12
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
David Turell,
2016-11-13, 21:16
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
dhw,
2016-11-13, 13:17
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
David Turell,
2016-11-12, 18:33
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
dhw,
2016-11-12, 12:40
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
David Turell,
2016-11-11, 15:04
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
dhw,
2016-11-11, 11:46
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
David Turell,
2016-11-10, 21:01
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
dhw,
2016-11-10, 13:14
- By FRANS de WAAL: more comment -
David Turell,
2016-06-11, 21:28
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
David Turell,
2016-06-01, 01:43
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
dhw,
2016-05-31, 13:26
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
David Turell,
2016-05-30, 15:12
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
dhw,
2016-05-30, 09:23
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
David Turell,
2016-04-19, 15:24
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
dhw,
2016-04-19, 13:26
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
David Turell,
2016-04-18, 18:11
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
dhw,
2016-04-18, 14:05
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
David Turell,
2016-04-17, 15:17
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
dhw,
2016-04-17, 13:06
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
David Turell,
2016-04-16, 15:59
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
dhw,
2016-04-16, 09:19
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
David Turell,
2016-04-15, 16:11
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
dhw,
2016-04-15, 14:20
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
David Turell,
2016-04-14, 17:44
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
dhw,
2016-04-14, 15:49
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
David Turell,
2016-04-13, 15:07
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
dhw,
2016-04-13, 12:27
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
David Turell,
2016-04-12, 16:15
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
dhw,
2016-04-12, 14:52
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
David Turell,
2016-04-11, 15:41
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
dhw,
2016-04-11, 13:30
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
David Turell,
2016-04-11, 01:02
- animal cognition: smart orangutans - David Turell, 2018-11-09, 20:38
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
dhw,
2016-04-10, 14:09