By FRANS de WAAL: more comment from him (Introduction)
de Waal comments on animal thought without language:-https://aeon.co/ideas/the-link-between-language-and-cognition-is-a-red-herring?utm_source=Aeon+Newsletter&utm_campaign=851785c9c4-Daily_Newsletter_30_June_20166_29_2016&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_411a82e59d-851785c9c4-68942561-"You won't often hear me say something like this, but I consider humans the only linguistic species. We honestly have no evidence for symbolic communication, equally rich and multifunctional as ours, outside our species. Language parallels between our species and others have been called a ‘red herring'. But as with so many larger human phenomena, once we break it down into smaller pieces, some of these pieces can be found elsewhere. It is a procedure I have applied myself in my popular books about primate politics, culture, even morality. Critical pieces such as power alliances (politics) and the spreading of habits (culture), as well as empathy and fairness (morality), are detectable outside our species. The same holds for capacities underlying language.-***-"Honeybees accurately signal distant nectar locations to the hive, and monkeys might utter calls in predictable sequences that resemble rudimentary syntax. The most intriguing parallel is perhaps referential signalling. Vervet monkeys on the plains of Kenya have distinct alarm calls for a leopard, an eagle or a snake. These predator-specific calls constitute a life-saving communication system, because different dangers demand different responses.... Instead of having special calls, some other monkey species combine the same calls in different ways under different circumstances. You wouldn't call it language, but it unquestionably carries rich meaning.-"Hand gestures among other primates are especially noteworthy, since in the apes they are under voluntary control and often learned. Apes move and wave their hands all the time while communicating, and they have an impressive repertoire of specific gestures such as stretching out an open hand to beg for something, or moving a whole arm over another as a sign of dominance. We share this behaviour with them and only them: monkeys have virtually no such gestures. The manual signals of apes are intentional, highly flexible and used to refine the message of communication. When a chimp holds out his hand to a friend who is eating, he is asking for a share, but when the same chimp is under attack and holds out his hand to a bystander, he is asking for protection. He might even point out his opponent by making angry slapping gestures in his direction. But although gestures are more context-dependent than other signals and greatly enrich communication, comparisons with human language remain a stretch.-"There is a notable irony here. In an earlier age, the absence of language was used as an argument against the existence of thought in other species. Today I find myself upholding the position that the manifest reality of thinking by nonlinguistic creatures argues against the importance of language."-Comment: There is no question that animals think with intentionality. de Waal clearly points out the vast human difference with language that helps us communicate at a vastly superior level, but language is not needed for simple and necessary animal communication. My dog tells me when he needs to go out by spinning and running to the door. To come back in he comes to a glass door and stares at us. But I'm not backing down from different in kind. They don't write Beethoven's Fifth.
Complete thread:
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
David Turell,
2016-04-09, 16:12
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
dhw,
2016-04-10, 14:09
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
David Turell,
2016-04-11, 01:02
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
dhw,
2016-04-11, 13:30
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
David Turell,
2016-04-11, 15:41
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
dhw,
2016-04-12, 14:52
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
David Turell,
2016-04-12, 16:15
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
dhw,
2016-04-13, 12:27
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
David Turell,
2016-04-13, 15:07
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
dhw,
2016-04-14, 15:49
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
David Turell,
2016-04-14, 17:44
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
dhw,
2016-04-15, 14:20
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
David Turell,
2016-04-15, 16:11
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
dhw,
2016-04-16, 09:19
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
David Turell,
2016-04-16, 15:59
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
dhw,
2016-04-17, 13:06
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
David Turell,
2016-04-17, 15:17
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
dhw,
2016-04-18, 14:05
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
David Turell,
2016-04-18, 18:11
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
dhw,
2016-04-19, 13:26
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
David Turell,
2016-04-19, 15:24
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
dhw,
2016-04-20, 12:44
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
David Turell,
2016-04-20, 19:09
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
dhw,
2016-04-21, 13:41
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
David Turell,
2016-04-22, 02:46
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
dhw,
2016-04-22, 15:05
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
David Turell,
2016-04-22, 19:37
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
dhw,
2016-04-23, 13:09
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition - David Turell, 2016-04-23, 15:57
- on animal cognition. A thoughtful essay -
David Turell,
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- on animal cognition: do animals have consciousness - David Turell, 2019-08-30, 16:43
- on animal cognition: do animals have consciousness -
dhw,
2019-08-30, 09:59
- on animal cognition. honey bee math skills -
David Turell,
2019-02-14, 23:38
- on animal cognition. A thoughtful essay -
David Turell,
2016-12-09, 19:10
- on animal cognition. A thoughtful essay -
dhw,
2016-12-09, 18:00
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
dhw,
2016-04-23, 13:09
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
David Turell,
2016-04-22, 19:37
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
dhw,
2016-04-22, 15:05
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
David Turell,
2016-04-22, 02:46
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
dhw,
2016-04-21, 13:41
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
David Turell,
2016-04-20, 19:09
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
dhw,
2016-04-20, 12:44
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
David Turell,
2016-05-29, 15:58
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
dhw,
2016-05-30, 09:23
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
David Turell,
2016-05-30, 15:12
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
dhw,
2016-05-31, 13:26
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
David Turell,
2016-06-01, 01:43
- By FRANS de WAAL: more comment -
David Turell,
2016-06-11, 21:28
- By FRANS de WAAL: more comment from him - David Turell, 2016-06-30, 17:32
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
David Turell,
2016-11-09, 17:23
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
dhw,
2016-11-10, 13:14
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
David Turell,
2016-11-10, 21:01
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
dhw,
2016-11-11, 11:46
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
David Turell,
2016-11-11, 15:04
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
dhw,
2016-11-12, 12:40
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
David Turell,
2016-11-12, 18:33
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
dhw,
2016-11-13, 13:17
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
David Turell,
2016-11-13, 21:16
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
dhw,
2016-11-14, 12:12
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
David Turell,
2016-11-14, 17:57
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
dhw,
2016-11-15, 14:01
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
David Turell,
2016-11-15, 20:20
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
dhw,
2016-11-16, 12:26
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
David Turell,
2016-11-16, 20:20
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
dhw,
2016-11-17, 12:40
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
David Turell,
2016-11-17, 19:54
- FRANS de WAAL: language and cognition -
David Turell,
2017-01-14, 15:47
- FRANS de WAAL: language and cognition -
dhw,
2017-01-15, 11:51
- FRANS de WAAL: language and cognition -
David Turell,
2017-01-15, 15:30
- FRANS de WAAL: language and cognition -
David Turell,
2019-05-27, 18:38
- FRANS de WAAL: language and cognition -
dhw,
2019-05-28, 09:50
- FRANS de WAAL: language and cognition - David Turell, 2019-05-28, 18:10
- FRANS de WAAL: language and cognition -
dhw,
2019-05-28, 09:50
- FRANS de WAAL: language and cognition -
David Turell,
2019-05-27, 18:38
- FRANS de WAAL: language and cognition -
David Turell,
2017-01-15, 15:30
- FRANS de WAAL: language and cognition -
dhw,
2017-01-15, 11:51
- FRANS de WAAL: language and cognition -
David Turell,
2017-01-14, 15:47
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
David Turell,
2016-11-17, 19:54
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
dhw,
2016-11-17, 12:40
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
David Turell,
2016-11-16, 20:20
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
dhw,
2016-11-16, 12:26
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
David Turell,
2016-11-15, 20:20
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
dhw,
2016-11-15, 14:01
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
David Turell,
2016-11-14, 17:57
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
dhw,
2016-11-14, 12:12
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
David Turell,
2016-11-13, 21:16
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
dhw,
2016-11-13, 13:17
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
David Turell,
2016-11-12, 18:33
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
dhw,
2016-11-12, 12:40
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
David Turell,
2016-11-11, 15:04
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
dhw,
2016-11-11, 11:46
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
David Turell,
2016-11-10, 21:01
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
dhw,
2016-11-10, 13:14
- By FRANS de WAAL: more comment -
David Turell,
2016-06-11, 21:28
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
David Turell,
2016-06-01, 01:43
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
dhw,
2016-05-31, 13:26
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
David Turell,
2016-05-30, 15:12
- By FRANS de WAAL: refuted -
dhw,
2016-05-30, 09:23
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
David Turell,
2016-04-19, 15:24
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
dhw,
2016-04-19, 13:26
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
David Turell,
2016-04-18, 18:11
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
dhw,
2016-04-18, 14:05
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
David Turell,
2016-04-17, 15:17
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
dhw,
2016-04-17, 13:06
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
David Turell,
2016-04-16, 15:59
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
dhw,
2016-04-16, 09:19
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
David Turell,
2016-04-15, 16:11
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
dhw,
2016-04-15, 14:20
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
David Turell,
2016-04-14, 17:44
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
dhw,
2016-04-14, 15:49
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
David Turell,
2016-04-13, 15:07
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
dhw,
2016-04-13, 12:27
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
David Turell,
2016-04-12, 16:15
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
dhw,
2016-04-12, 14:52
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
David Turell,
2016-04-11, 15:41
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
dhw,
2016-04-11, 13:30
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
David Turell,
2016-04-11, 01:02
- animal cognition: smart orangutans - David Turell, 2018-11-09, 20:38
- By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition -
dhw,
2016-04-10, 14:09