By FRANS de WAAL: refuted (Introduction)

by dhw, Thursday, November 17, 2016, 12:40 (2710 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: Does this mean your God organized every advance in our culture(s)? Every religion, every art, every language, every bomb – all preordained? Where does pre-ordaining end and free will begin?
DAVID: You are playing word games. My 'preordained' simply means that with our giant brain the advances had to occur through humans developng use of that brain.

Then we are almost in agreement. Once humans had acquired their enhanced consciousness (we don’t know how), all the other advancements, including language, inevitably followed on.

DAVID: And I have no idea how the weaverbird nest was invented, but since I accept God, I have an answer.
dhw: Not “how”. You have told us that God must have designed it, because it’s too complex for the stupid old weaverbird. The question is why, since you believe all such complexities were necessary to balance life so that humans could appear. No nest, no humans? It is perfectly possible to “accept God” and also accept that the weaverbird may have done its own designing.
DAVID: Because balance requires a multiplicity of factors including apex predators:
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/laelaps/when-lions-abound-hyenas-pick-a-new-menu/?...
DAVID's comment: As we've agreed, balance goes on and everyone gets the energy they need to survive and possibly evolve.

Everyone does not get the energy they need to survive. 99% of species have gone extinct. But it’s interesting to hear that you think that “everyone” might possibly go on evolving. Previously, I thought you thought humans marked the end point.

Under “Hungry cockatoos use tools”:
QUOTE: Rutz says careful study of birds in the wild might show that Goffin’s cockatoos are natural toolmakers too – although Figaro and his friends may have worked out how to make tools spontaneously. “Both of the options remain a possibility,” he says."
David’s comment: Corvids do it in the wild, so this is something these bird brains can handle. Very impressive.

It certainly is. Scientists are discovering more and more talents in our fellow animals. One day, they may even discover that weaverbirds are intelligent enough to design their own nests.

DHW: I am suggesting that just as other organisms are known to respond to needs by changing their own anatomy, our ancestors did the same.
DAVID: We do not know that organisms do any more than minor adaptions on their own. You have overstated evolution theory.

Once again: It is a HYPOTHESIS to try and explain speciation. Just as divine preprogramming and/or dabbling is a HYPOTHESIS. Nobody knows how speciation took place. That is why we theorize.