By FRANS de WAAL on animal cognition (Introduction)

by David Turell , Friday, April 15, 2016, 16:11 (3143 days ago) @ dhw


> dhw: Nobody knows why multicellularity appeared. Why did your God wait 3 billion years to do his complexifications? Do please answer.
> DAVID: Waiting for enough oxygen is one answer. High levels took a long time to appear, and God seems to like evolutionary processes. 
> 
> dhw: And yet on Wednesday you wrote: “The Cambrian is an extreme jump in complexity, more than the wait for enough oxygen can be used as an excuse that 'the conditions were not right'.” So it's OK for God to hang around till conditions are right, but it's no excuse for Baccy & Co not acting sooner. It also suggests that God had no control over the environment (“waiting…took a long time to appear”)…-Let me help you follow my reasoning: God uses evolution of everything, as the universe obviously evolved. Then life appeared and evolved. Then environmental conditions for life evolved and complexity appeared. BUT complexity was never required, per our view of bacteria. The required impetus for complexity comes with planning. Only a mind can plan. Simple.-> 
> dhw: You had asked why cells waited 3 billion years before complexifying, as if somehow that invalidated the whole hypothesis of evolution as the product of a natural drive for improvement. I have tried to explain the Cambrian as the product of this drive, which received its impetus from a change in conditions (namely, increased oxygen). You rejected this explanation (see above), but now you accept it. Thank you.-Explained above.-> dhw: What you do not accept is that organisms may have autonomous, inventive minds (perhaps designed by your God).-Your invention to help you balance on the fence.-> dhw: Because he “seems to like evolutionary processes”. Having fun? Got distracted? Didn't know where it was heading? I know, I know, we shouldn't ask such questions.- Evolutionary processes, yes. Your questions, not mine.