By FRANS de WAAL: refuted (Introduction)

by dhw, Tuesday, November 15, 2016, 14:01 (2929 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: Our early ancestors lived in caves, like their fellow animals, but then they started to build, and brick by brick their buildings “evolved” from the simplest of huts to the colossal edifices of modern architecture. The same process applies to all the other manifestations of our enhanced consciousness – all built brick by brick on the foundations we have inherited.
DAVID: Of course learning to use our huge ability with our new consciousness took time after it appeared in the first H. sapiens 200,000 years ago. But our current culture and ability was ordained back then. You have talked around hat gap in evolution.

What do you mean by “ordained”? Are you now saying that as well as preprogramming humans, God also preprogrammed our culture? The gap in evolution is the leap to human levels of consciousness, from which our culture (including language) evolved “brick by brick”. Nobody knows what caused the leap, but I have acknowledged the possibility of your God dabbling. That is not talking round the gap – it is an acknowledgement that the gap has not been explained.

dhw: I keep emphasizing that stress is not the only factor, but you refuse to accept the drive to improvement.
DAVID: I've noted previously my drive to complexity includes improvement. I am not espousing complexity for the sake of unreasonable useless complexity.

Good. If complexity had a purpose, then I suggest that purpose was improvement. What other purposes do you “include”?

dhw: It is perfectly possible to recognize the vast gap between our consciousness and that of our fellow animals without believing that every single innovation and natural wonder was specially designed by God to keep life going so that humans could appear. THAT is the disagreement between us.
DAVID: Then tell me why humans appeared for no reason, against all odds.

I have done so: for the same reason as every other multicellular organism appeared against all reason, against all odds - the drive for improvement. But as an agnostic, I do not discount a divine dabble. I simply do not believe that your God designed the weaverbird’s nest in order to keep life going for the sake of humans.

Xxxx

David’s comment under "Ape gestures": Yes, why language? The apes have never changed and we grew a great brain and the proper anatomy which could handle language. That reduced the need for trying to understand gestures, which are good only for immediate needs. We are different, not in degree but in kind. We can discuss anything, any concept.

The answer is contained in the text you have quoted: “At some point, it became necessary for our human ancestors to communicate about more than these immediate goals, and therein lies the mystery of language evolution.” The mystery is the enhanced consciousness, which has led to every other advancement, including language.