autonomy v. automaticity (Evolution)

by dhw, Sunday, January 21, 2018, 13:29 (575 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID’s comment (under “parasite controls plants’ defense"): The evolution of this arrangement must have been stepwise with the Dodder partially independent until it worked out a way to silence the plant's defenses and then become totally obligate. Living organisms show purposeful behavior. I think that was programmed into life when life originated. God at work.
dhw: Thank you for another fascinating natural wonder, and also for the long awaited acknowledgement that the Dodder must have worked out a way to silence the plant’s defences. Yes, indeed, living organisms show purposeful behaviour, and it may well be that when life originated, your God gave them the means to behave purposefully and to work out their own solutions to life's problems, as opposed to preprogramming their behaviour and all the solutions. Hallelujah! [/b] (David’s bold)

DAVID: Hallelujah ha! The bolded sentence fits my theory perfectly. "Gave them the means" simply implies that God preprogrammed them with an inventive mechanism, as we have discussed before.

dhw: Excellent news. After all these years you have finally abandoned your hypothesis that cells/cellular communities (= living organisms) are automatons whose innovations, lifestyles and natural wonders were preprogrammed 3.8 billion years ago (or had to be personally dabbled by your God). It now fits your theory perfectly that cells/cell communities like the weaverbird, the monarch butterfly, the skull-shrinking shrew, bacteria and even a brainless plant work out their own solutions with the inventive mechanism (= autonomous intelligence) that may have been given to them originally by your God. Another red-letter day in the history of the Agnosticweb.

DAVID: You forget I've always maintained that the inventive mechanism (IM) was under full control of God's instructions and automatic mechanisms. God is always in control.

I have not forgotten it. That is why I have drawn your attention to the fact that after all these years you claimed on Friday 19 January under “parasite controls plant’s defense” that the bolded sentence fitted your theory perfectly. And yet on Saturday 20 January you appear to have forgotten your hallelujah acceptance of my hypothesis. I have reproduced the exchanges which you seem to have forgotten. I feel that currently I am discussing these matters with two people – the David who agrees with me on a Friday, and then argues the opposite on a Saturday.
DAVID (under “Plant awareness”): A new study of how plants are aware of the world and what might affect them:

DAVID’s comment: It is not surprising plants have these automatic molecular mechanisms to sense the outside world. They must be able to defend themselves to survive.

Plant “awareness” provides further evidence that even brainless organisms have the ability, to use your very own words, to “work out” their own ways (= autonomously) of solving problems, as opposed to being preprogrammed and as acknowledged on 19 January in your endorsement of the sentence you bolded with such enthusiasm.[/i]

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