Evolution v Creationism: guided evolution? dhw? (Evolution)

by David Turell , Thursday, April 09, 2015, 20:04 (3303 days ago) @ dhw


> DAVID: Same old problem: either the one celled act intelligently because they have a degree of it ,or they act intelligently because they are following implicit instructions. No one can tell which.
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> dhw: If no one knows, why do you keep insisting that they are automatons?-Very easy: my choice between the only two possibilities is they respond automatically-
> DAVID: I have agreed but we still don't know why multicellularity happened by what process or for what reason. It is a difficult step for evolution, and offers a reason to consider design or guidance.
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> dhw: The reason would be self-improvement. I do not dismiss design or guidance. My problem is your vacillation over the concept of an inventive mechanism (possibly designed by your God) as opposed to preprogramming of the first cells or dabbling. -My vacillation is because I don't know. And picking a choice is not a solution. You should understand that as an agnostic.- 
> dhw: The whole point of the “inventive mechanism” is that it is inventive, i.e. the hypothesis explains how innovations may have taken place, not how they function once they have proved successful.-We have invented an IM, but we don't know if, in fact, it exists, except for the evidence of epigenetic modifications which are responses to challenges, and not necessarily an advance in evolution to more refinement and complexity.
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> dhw: Yet again, it does not have to find a way round God. We still need to find a source. And you can even have a bit of guidance through the occasional dabble. But continuous dabbling = Creationism. .... It is entirely based on your attempt to read the mind of your God - the very danger you keep warning the rest of us to avoid!-I don't warn about attempting to read God's intentions, understanding or describing His personality is what I try to avoid. I've said He intends to have humans.
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> dhw: I would still like to know whether you think your God preprogrammed the first cells with the weaverbird's nest, dabbled, or gave the bird a list of options while at the same time preprogramming its choice.-And once again I will assume your role. I am agnostic on the point. I will accept the point that God invented a very clever inventive type of living matter.