Ourcellves? (Identity)

by GateKeeper , Wednesday, April 09, 2014, 20:53 (3880 days ago) @ David Turell

If I may comment, almost all observers are splitters or lumpers. As a dualist, I am a lumper. 
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That is right. Although I must admit the part about limpers and splitters alludes me. Do you mean some of us look in? and some of us look up? They are only perspective views. I think we should move up and down. -To be truthful really don't know what a dualist is. First I talk about how things work. Then if we like we can slap a label on it. But what I have seen, dualism is the least useful description of what is around us. I don't see many "this only" or "that only" solutions. If I am even close in understanding what it is. I see feedback loops.-Maybe I am a loop-er?->>It seems to me we all experience consciousness and use it, even if we cannot fully or partially explain how it origniates or processes. But the success of the human condition and the enormous advances in science and in civilized lives, attests to the fact that it works. 
>>-Yeah, we all use it. "IT" is "real" enough. The words I am picking up from rom points me in the direction of ... "it may not be what we think it is". That's the words "phenomena" and "pseudo". Neither imply "not here" or "not real". Only that "consciousness" may be something other than we "see". I think that is a fair angle. And based on what we don't know is the best we can say.-
>>That it has to be based on a very complex bioelectrical brain is only a consequence of the mechanism we must use, since we have evolved from much simpler biology. I cannot envision any other way, but then again, I don't know any other way.
>>-The key phrase I see is "based on the mechanism". To build a "computer" you need a certain number of parts. It is based on the mechanism used. To do simple things you need less parts, to do more things you need more parts. -However the " quantum computing" possible with less parts is important. -The same with "awareness". We need a certain number of "interactions" to have "consciousness" in the body type we are in. I tend to agree with you on that, if that's what you mean.-We can argue that an atom is "aware" of its "electrons" but that is not what most people mean when they say "Consciousness". It is not what I mean.