Ourcellves? (Identity)

by dhw, Monday, April 07, 2014, 14:24 (3665 days ago) @ romansh

As is so often the case, a thread is opened with a particular subject in mind, and somehow everyone then shoots off along their own tangent. The tangents are interesting ... I'm not complaining in this case ... but I'm going to pursue the original line of thought, as follows: One materialist argument against belief in free will is that "we" consist only of materials, and "we" do not have control over them, but they control "us". Romansh, in one of yesterday's posts, tackled the problem of "WE" head on. It's not often we agree, so let me quote this passage in full:-ROM: It is the word we I have a problem with. I might be able to understand intellectually by "reviewing a thought" repetetively I can "manipulate" my underlying brain structure ... but what "manipulated" my brain structure to want to "manipulate" my brain structure ... I don't have a clue. When I use the word manipulate I don't want imply intent of any sort. Just to make sure there is no ambiguity.-IF (very large capitals) we accept the materialist argument that the brain and mind are synonymous, "we" ARE our cells (and, as George rightly points out, the way the cells are connected). We all know that there are different levels of cellular activity ... David has mentioned the processes which work automatically - but when we talk of free will, most of us are referring to a much higher level of awareness, e.g. Romansh's "manipulative" level, as opposed to that of digestion. That level is my focus. Even if the mind IS the brain, and all its activities are the direct products of our materials, it is still "me". And so the argument that our cells control "us" and therefore "we" have no free will is illogical because it creates a false dichotomy. Our cells ARE us, and so "we" control ourselves. And that is what people mean by free will.
 
I will add as a postscript that Romansh's question and response are absolutely fundamental to the problem of consciousness and free will: "What manipulated my brain structure to want to manipulate my brain structure"...I don't have a clue." That is why some of us keep an open mind on all related subjects ... not just free will and consciousness, materialism and dualism, consciousness as an emergent property, but also psychic experiences such as NDEs and OBEs. None of us have a clue. I also accept, Romansh, that you use "manipulate" without implying "intent", but until we understand the nature of thought, consciousness, the mind, I hope you will also keep at least one section of your own mind open to the possibility of intent.