Chance v. Design Part 2 (Evolution)

by Balance_Maintained , U.S.A., Saturday, August 18, 2012, 04:01 (4479 days ago) @ Matt S.

And science can't tell us anything at all about a 'creative force' because if such a creative force is 'supernatural' it is by definition outside of the problem domain of science, which is the physical world. The best you can say about a creator is 'maybe.' This is both because of ignorance of unknown properties of our universe, and for things we think we know. 
> 
> Look, god is supernatural or he's not. If he's not, he's subject to and not above the laws of the universe and therefore subject to scientific inquiry. If however he's supernatural, he is outside the physical universe and any claims that he/she/it affects the physical universe has to come up with a way that it could do that, (including defining at least some of its physical limits). 
> -Just out of curiosity, why does God have to be supernatural? Hell, for that matter, why do ghosts, spirits, ESP, OBE's or NDE's need to be any more supernatural than dark matter or dark energy, neither of which can be observed any more than God?-In fact, I would argue that there can not be anything at all that is unnatural if you are a proponent for intelligent design, because in order for a designer to implement the natural world then the designer itself must in fact be natural. -People misuse that word. Science says that dark matter and dark energy exist even though we have no direct evidence for their existence on the simple assertion that we observe something that doesn't make sense unless we ASSUME that they do exist. We mere mortals of the non-scientific realm, though less than dust beneath their academic heals, are expected to take that as the gospel truth. Yet, when someone says aliens, esp, NDE, OBE, God, or any other thing that can not be observed DIRECTLY we label it as supernatural and label the person a quack. -As to your assumption that the designer must in fact be subject to the laws, I do not necessarily agree. I can design rules for a game, as a game designer, and create a world in which entities come into existence, wink out of existence, and all within that world are subject to the rules which I created. However, I, as the designer, am not. I have my own rules, my own limitations, my own restrictions, and my own abilities that are far beyond the ken of the normal entities existing within that world. If I have that ability as a humble game designer, how much more so would the grand designer of life, the universe, and everything?

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What is the purpose of living? How about, 'to reduce needless suffering. It seems to me to be a worthy purpose.