Asking of the Designer what we would of any other designer (The atheist delusion)

by David Turell , Thursday, July 28, 2011, 15:02 (4867 days ago) @ whateverist

"something cannot have been designed if we cannot explain the existence of the designer"-The ancient and many modern philosophers choose to accept the ancient Grecian principle of "First Cause".
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> Yet that is where we end up if we are skeptical about the powers of chance. Of course chance only enters into it once DNA, the machinery of evolution, is in place. From there adaptive/reproductive advantage of the rare chance mutation over eons of time makes perfect sense. But where'd that DNA come from?-Now that is a mighty question! Getting to DNA is a mega-leap. The real question is where did the information in DNA come from? That is at an intellectual level, and requires a powerful mind to create a code that is so clever.
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> Perhaps the formation of the pre-organic molecules from which DNA is formed is as inevitable as the formation of rust and crystals. Given the nature of the material itself and its interactions with its surroundings under the necessary conditions, crystals and rust are inevitable. -Crystals and rust are very simple products. Sixty years of research has come up with nothing but conjecture.-> The same may be true of pre-organic molecules. If the nature of the materials under the necessary conditions were sufficient to bring about the formation of DNA, then I think chance by way of evolution can account for the variety and complexity we see.-"The same may be true" requires lots of faith. Most reactions in organic chemistry require heat (certainly available in ocean floor vents) but also enzymes, some of which can be inorganic metals. These special perfect requirements will have to be in place in a very lucky fashion to achieve your wish. And it won't be DNA that appears, but simple organic molecules. Once they start to try and join each other to get to RNA and then DNA heat again will be required and at some point large, really massive organic enzymes will be required to push the reactions, which otherwise might take millions of years. We know it didn't take billion of years to reach life: Earth at 4.5 bya, life at 3.6-3.8 bya. The Earth cooled enough to try for life at 4.0 bya. So, life took 200-400 million years to get started. The point is you can't use the old approach of saying 'lots of time to do it'.-Welcome aboard 'whateverist' and join the debate!