Miscellaneous (General)

by dhw, Saturday, December 07, 2024, 11:53 (15 days ago) @ David Turell

Cellular intelligence: renal cell memory

dhw: Having an ability does not mean having to follow instructions.

DAVID: Yes it does if they use instructions to alter their actions.
And:
DAVID: The cells are built to die at some point. All life ends up dead. Not God's fault.

dhw: I’d rather not talk of faults here, as we are discussing cellular intelligence, not theodicy. So now what are you saying? Your God gives cells instructions on how to survive new circumstances, but he also gives them instructions NOT to survive?

DAVID: Cellular apoptosis is built into life. Remember?

So has your God given instructions for precisely which cells should live and which should die when new conditions threaten the immune system? And if his instructions fail, and new threats kill instead of being killed, what does that tell us about his instructions?

Keeping the brain clean

dhw: I have no difficulty accepting the possibility that cellular intelligence is God’s design [...]. It’s nice to see that you are no longer rejecting the theory. At least for today.

DAVID: A designed intelligence is no autonomous intelligence.

dhw: And there was me thinking you thought God had designed our intelligence to be autonomous, in the form of free will. And you even have viruses mutating on their own, independently of any divine instructions.

DAVID: Flu virus, yes, and amazingly, our free will thought.

So when you say that “a designed intelligence is no autonomous intelligence”, you should add “unless it is an autonomous intelligence”. That may include cells.

Fighting off asteroid hits

DAVID[…] dhw will ask why God did not do it differently for safety. Perhaps by some other method. The possibility is there is no other method, but dhw continuously knows better than God.

dhw: You ask all the right questions, and your answers vividly illustrate the confession you made a little while ago: “I first choose a God I wish to believe in. The rest follows.”

I shan’t repeat all the absurdities and contradictiona which are dealt with on the evolution thread and for which you try to blame me!

DAVID: I did what you have not done, studied the biochemical basis of life. That is the true start which convinced me life is designed by a superior mind.

It has been clear to me since I first switched from atheism to agnosticism that the complexities of living things are a powerful argument for the existence of God. Our discussions about a possible God’s purpose, methods and nature have never been about his existence, but I refuse to ignore those inexplicable factors which throw doubt on his existence. The sheer size, composition and history of the universe, and the very concept of an immaterial, sourceless form of conscious mind are among those factors.

DAVID: Then I start to imagine the personage exists with that mind and what's in it for
Him, if anything. I admit some of my guesses are wishful thinking.

What’s “in it for Him” has led you schizophrenically to propose all the humanizing thought patterns and emotions you regard as possible but reject as impossible. (See the evolution thread.)