Miscellaneous (General)

by dhw, Sunday, November 24, 2024, 12:35 (2 hours, 25 minutes ago) @ David Turell

Immune system complexity: sniffing out invaders

dhw: The work of the molecules triggers specific responses. Something within the cell has to process the new information and decide on the appropriate responses. We have no idea what that “something” is, but some scientists believe it is a form of intelligence. You tell us that somehow the molecules automatically switch on the right instructions which your God planted inside the first cells 3.8 billion years ago, or he has just popped in to make the decision for them.

DAVID: You've summarized my position.

dhw: I doubt if even your ID-ers would support such a theory, but you pride yourself on your independent thinking, although you condemn my mixture of deism and process theology for not being mainstream.

You have dropped this subject, but it is central to our discussion of all theories relating to evolution, including how it works and what role your God might have played in it, as well as the very nature of organic life. I remain mystified by the fact that you agree that cellular behaviour looks intelligent and yet you cannot bear the thought that cells might actually BE intelligent. Perhaps you could explain why you think your God could not possibly have endowed them with such autonomy? The next item expands the same subject:

Different birds build different nests

dhw: […] One might even believe that different organisms have an inbuilt intelligence
which enables them to do their own designing. A very different theory from that of a dear friend of mine, who is convinced that, for instance, the weaverbird could only have built its nest if it followed his God’s instructions.

DAVID: In that instance the weaverbirds only followed one designated design.

dhw: Does that mean God designed the weaverbird’s nest but all the other birds were able to design their own?

DAVID: That is what it appears to be.

Good news! We now have all these varieties of birds with the ability to design their complex nests. Only the poor old weaverbird has to rely on God to teach him. I wonder how far you are willing to stretch this concession of yours, that our fellow organisms have minds of their own, as opposed to being divinely preprogrammed or dabbled with.

Theoretical origin of life: Space is filled with organics

dhw: why did he leave them floating around for about 1000,000,000 years, and then use them to create and cull all kinds of life forms, if all he wanted to do was create us and our food?

DAVID: Your human view of billions of galaxies does not know how important all those galaxies are. God knows.

dhw: This is your defence of all your theories: his creation of billions of galaxies, just like his creation of 99 out of 100 irrelevant species, makes no sense to you, but you cannot conceive of the possibility that your wishful theory that we should be your God’s one and only purpose might be wrong. And indeed the billions of galaxies especially might be taken as support for agnosticism and atheism.

DAVID: We are here, against all odds, and you have no answer for that.

The duckbilled platypus is also here against all odds, and NOBODY has an answer to the question of how life originated. Your theory is that there is an unknown, sourceless being who designed it, and the atheist theory is that the odds are reduced by the enormity of the universe. You simply complicate matters by insisting that your God (if he exists) designed life for the sole purpose of designing us plus food – a theory which dismisses 99.9% of his “designs” as irrelevant, and which therefore shows him to be messy and inefficient.

DAVID: You cannot conceive of God's reasoning. And you cannot answer the question: why are we here?

You have agreed that NOBODY can conceive of God’s reasoning, although you insist that you know precisely what he was thinking when he created the universe. (“All I wanner do is design humans plus food.”) If there is no God, then clearly there is no purpose other than purposes we create for ourselves. If he exists, we can only theorize. Together, you and I have proposed a wide range of possible answers, all listed on the evolution thread. But you like to forget your own list and mine because of your schizophrenic view that although your God probably/possibly has thought patterns and emotions like ours, and every item on the list is possible, he is not human in any way, and therefore the items on the list are not possible.

Spoonworms are weird

DAVID: another part of the seabed ecosystem.

Thank you as always for these fascinating natural wonders. All part of what seems more and more like one gigantic free-for-all!