Miscellaneous (General)

by dhw, Thursday, November 21, 2024, 10:01 (23 days ago) @ David Turell

Immunity system complexity (C elegans, and also “our whole body has memory”)

dhw: Did your God provide the first cells with every solution, or did he provide cells with the ability to work out the solutions for themselves?

DAVID: "Minor adaptations" not solutions.

More word games. If a body is attacked by invaders, they create a problem for the body, and the cells of the immune system have to figure out a solution. Neatly illustrated by your next example:

Immune system complexity: sniffing out invaders

QUOTE: […] the reflected spectrum changed in a different way after introducing the E. coli LPS than after adding their Salmonella counterparts." This suggests that the same receptor is activated by different molecules in different ways and then triggers specific responses depending on the signal." (David’s bold)

DAVID: these reactions are very specific and suggest strongly that they were designed.

They suggest strongly that the cells know exactly what they are doing, as they change their responses according to the nature of the problem. The ability to process information and decide on the best solution to a particular problem is a clear indication of intelligence.

Theoretical origin of life: Space is filled with organics

dhw: why did he leave them floating around for about 1000,000,000 years, and then use them to create and cull all kinds of life forms, if all he wanted to do was create us and our food?

DAVID: God chose to evolve us for His own reasons. We are the final step in evolution.
And:
DAVID: And you are dead against recognizing evolution is over.

Irrelevant to the question at the head of this post, which you are so desperate to avoid.

Introducing the brain: consciousness as ephaptic fields

DAVID: Neurons act as receivers of consciousness which can operate without the brain in NDE's.

dhw: Neurons act as producers of consciousness in most research projects. I’m not against dualism. NDEs and other psychic experiences do support the theory. But you claimed that the article supported your dualism. It doesn’t.

DAVID: All I said was this h=new field is a place where consciousness might fit in.

You said that the article “comfortably fits my underlying dualism”. If neurons are the source of consciousness, I don’t see how this can be said to support dualism.

The missing fossils argument; new very early Ediacaran

DAVID: [...] It appears de novo as do the Cambrian animals.

dhw: [...] Nobody knows the true story of life’s evolution, but we are talking about life 600,000,000 years ago. It’s a miracle that ANY fossils have survived, let along been found, but you expect every single stage of every single species to have been recorded for us on our ever changing planet. Otherwise, you will claim that every new discovery must have been created “de novo”. How many remains of current individual species do you think will still be around 600,000,000 years from now?

You quoted Bechly, who emphasized the uniqueness of a fossil find.

dhw: Yes, it is a “unique combination”. We cannot expect billions of “unique combinations” to preserve every stage in the evolution of every organism that ever lived. Thank you for this support for my comments above.

DAVID: You are welcome.

I trust you will now refrain from such comments as the one at the head of this post.

Nature’s Wonders: clams have symbiotic algae

dhw: The sheer variety of methods organisms use to ensure their survival suggests to me: 1) that life and speciation itself are one huge free-for-all, and 2) that the first cells, which gave rise to all living forms, must have been equipped with the mechanisms necessary for all this “natural” inventiveness. If there is a God who invented the mechanism for inventiveness, I could well imagine him being fascinated by the rich and natural variety of its products, just as we are.

DAVID: I doubt He is fascinated, since He is the author of all designs. You kept presenting Him as human.

You have agreed repeatedly that he is likely to be interested in his creations. Fascination is just a strong form of interest, and for heaven’s sake as well as mine, will you stop pretending that any human-like thought pattern or emotion would turn him into a two-legged mammal.

LUCA latest

https://www.quantamagazine.org/all-life-on-earth-today-descended-from-a-single-cell

DAVID: this is not origin of life research but the implication of such an early start is amazing. This universe was prepared for life to appear quickly. With ecosystems forming early.

The universe is thought to be 13.7 billion years old. The article estimates that life began 4.2 billion years ago. How does that amount to quick preparation for life?

QUOTE: "If that timeline is right, life had only a couple hundred million years to emerge and become fairly complex."

The theory that life began with a single cell (perhaps equipped with “a rudimentary immune system”) and that it complexified relatively quickly ties in with the suggestion that the original cells were already equipped with the mechanisms for evolution. Not much of an advert for Darwin’s random mutations, but a good basis for the Margulis/McLintock/Sheldrake concept of cellular intelligence (perhaps designed by your God).