Miscellaneous (General)

by dhw, Wednesday, November 20, 2024, 09:15 (1 day, 0 hours, 21 min. ago) @ David Turell

Immunity system complexity (C elegans, and also “our whole body has memory”)

dhw:[…] did your God provide the first cells with every solution, or did he provide cells with the ability to work out the solutions for themselves?

DAVID: Yes, every major solution. Cells made minor adaptations as above.

We were discussing the immune system. When the cells of the immune system respond to invaders, there are no changes to the organism itself. At most, the immune system might be said to produce minor adaptations. Thank you for confirming that cells have the ability to work out solutions for themselves.

dhw: (under "whole body has memory") The question is whether cells do or do not perform all the above actions, which require thought.

DAVID: It only looks like they do.

dhw: If something looks as if it thinks and acts as if it thinks, it is hardly unreasonable to suggest that maybe it thinks.

DAVID: You forget design can make it look like thought.

You forget that something that looks and acts like thought might actually be thought.

Theoretical origin of life: Space is filled with organics

dhw: why did he leave them floating around for about 1000,000,000 years, and then use them to create and cull all kinds of life forms, if all he wanted to do was create us and our food?

DAVID: God does not tell us why.

dhw: And you can’t think of any reason why, but still you insist that you know his purpose was to indulge in his messy, inefficient way of achieving the one and only purpose you allow him to have.

DAVID: I 'allow' nothing. God chose to evolve us for His own reasons. We are the final step in evolution.

We are the latest step in evolution. Who knows what will happen, say, 3000,000,000 years from now? You refuse to accept the possibility that your God might have created life for any purpose other than us plus food. Hence the schizophrenic contradictions dealt with on the “evolution” thread.

Introducing the brain: consciousness as ephaptic fields

QUOTE: "[…] Our recent theoretical paper, building on these findings, suggested that ephaptic field effects may in fact be the primary mechanism for consciousness and cognition, rather than neural firing.”

dhw: Even if it is the mechanism, that doesn’t suggest "free floating" dualistic immortality.

DAVID: It only supports the living side of duality.

dhw: Nobody knows the truth. If consciousness arises through the actions of neurons, that fact alone could be taken to support materialism.

DAVID: Neurons act as receivers of consciousness which can operate without the brain in NDE's.

Neurons act as producers of consciousness in most research projects. I’m not against dualism. NDEs and other psychic experiences do support the theory. But you claimed that the article supported your dualism. It doesn’t.

The missing fossils argument; new very early Ediacaran

DAVID: [...] It appears de novo as do the Cambrian animals.

dhw: [...] Nobody knows the true story of life’s evolution, but we are talking about life 600,000,000 years ago. It’s a miracle that ANY fossils have survived, let along been found, but you expect every single stage of every single species to have been recorded for us on our ever changing planet. Otherwise, you will claim that every new discovery must have been created “de novo”. How many remains of current individual species do you think will still be around 600,000,000 years from now?

DAVID: For your edification read Bechly on fossilification:
https://evolutionnews.org/2024/11/fossil-friday-new-research-on-how-delicate-soft-bodie...
"Anoxic conditions in the burial environment would have slowed bacterial decay and minimized disruption by scavengers, while fine sediment encasement shielded delicate structures from mechanical breakdown. This unique combination of rapid burial and anoxia, possibly supplemented by specific chemical interactions in the sediment, allowed the Emu Bay Shale to capture fine anatomical details, adding a vital piece to our understanding of Cambrian ecosystems." (dhw’s bold)

Yes, it is a “unique combination”. We cannot expect billions of “unique combinations” to preserve every stage in the evolution of every organism that ever lived. Thank you for this support for my comments above.

Nature’s Wonders: clams have symbiotic algae

QUOTES: The heart cockles aren’t alone in channeling sunlight to symbiotic algae. Other marine creatures, such as giant clams, do this too ). […]

“'They’re using minerals in their shells to do this and not biological structures […]”

DAVID: A new approach from nature teaches us as once natural Velcro did.

I like these references to “nature”. The sheer variety of methods organisms use to ensure their survival suggests to me: 1) that life and speciation itself are one huge free-for-all, and 2) that the first cells, which gave rise to all living forms, must have been equipped with the mechanisms necessary for all this “natural” inventiveness. If there is a God who invented the mechanism for inventiveness, I could well imagine him being fascinated by the rich and natural variety of its products, just as we are.