Animal Minds; social adaptability in macaques (Animals)

by dhw, Wednesday, June 26, 2024, 12:59 (149 days ago) @ xeno6696

DAVID: that the monkeys were able to change their social behavior when forced with survival issues is not surprising. "I have to tolerate them to have shade" is a self-serving decision. It does not represent empathy.

It simply represents the fact that monkeys are intelligent enough to know what’s good for them. Of course anything that improves chances of survival is self-serving! Fundamentally, our own social systems are (or should be) based on the same principle: do whatever is good for all of us. Sadly, there are countless individuals whose basic principle is do whatever is good for me. This ties in with some of the discussions we had with xeno on Buddhism!

xeno: This study demonstrates comparatively that different species can find non-destructive solutions when it comes to resource sharing.

Actually this study deals with groups of the same species. It would be fascinating to know whether the same cooperation takes place between different species. However, this doesn’t invalidate the points you make below, since individual groups of the same animal species are just as likely to be in conflict as individual groups of humans.

xeno: This suggests the following:
1. Memory of past aggression
2. Enough consciousness to realize some level of individual self-control.
3. A willingness to try a non-aggressive strategy to get desired outcomes which directly implies
4. The ability to plan and adjust. You have to be able to imagine different outcomes to pick a different strategy.
What this study directly assaults is the idea that macaques are automatons that react via instinct. They think like we do, sans language. (dhw’s bold)

I agree completely. And I would extend the bolded comment to all organisms, though with the obvious proviso that our own human range of thought goes way, way, way beyond the limits of other life forms.