Dualism versus materialism again (Humans)

by dhw, Wednesday, February 28, 2024, 12:13 (59 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: It's all "ifs"! If consciousness is confined to the soul, then the brain cannot send consciousness to consciousness! NDEs provide evidence that consciousness can exist without the brain – hence evidence for dualism. Diseases, drugs, alcohol etc. provide evidence that consciousness is produced by the brain and is part of the brain, as vividly illustrated by your own comment: “a distorted brain creates a distorted consciousness.” Your insistence that sentient, cognitive, but brainless bacteria cannot have a soul - despite their independent, autonomous ability to change their own DNA, and despite your desperate attempts to change the meaning of the word “autonomous” into “dependent on God’s instructions” - has led you to make the following comment:

DAVID: I'll stay with no brain, no consciousness.

dhw: You could hardly have a more conclusive expression of support for materialism.

DAVID: […] Perhaps the soul and consciousness exist as a dualism, outside the body.

You don’t seem to have grasped the basic principle of dualism, which is that there are TWO entities: 1) the mental, which is soul/mind/consciousness, and 2) the physical, which is the body, including the brain. So how can the brain (physical) send the mental to the mental? It’s nonsense. Materialism claims that consciousness is created by the materials: or as you have just stated so bluntly: no brain, no consciousness.

dhw: However, we have both agreed that NDEs and other psychic experiences support dualism. We both know what dualism means and what materialism means, and so a few days ago you wrote: “I’ll admit we do not know the true answer.” There is no need to keep repeating the different sides of the case. You believe in dualism, and I remain neutral.

DAVID: Good stopping point. Note my objection above
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Objection dealt with. Of course it’s a good stopping point, and it’s the reason why I was reluctant to go over the same ground as we’ve been over before, but maybe there are some folk out there who will still be interested!