Dualism versus materialism again (Humans)

by David Turell , Tuesday, February 27, 2024, 15:13 (268 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: If the brain both sends and receives consciousness, where is the consciousness? Outside the brain as in NDE's. Brain material, consciousness immaterial, dualism. Now, sick brain distorts sending and receiving. But still dualism. My 'own materialist observation' is still really dualism.

dhw: How can the brain send consciousness if consciousness is outside the brain??? You lurch from one absurd contradiction to another, as listed above. There’s no point in repeating what I wrote, as it sums up all the arguments. You agreed that nobody knows the truth, so what is the point in you continuing to twist yourself in knots?

DAVID: The knots are yours. How does a radio receive signals? The brain is the same!!! If NDE's show the separation, the relationship is as I describe it. Does the EEG show electrical activity? That activity can be seen outside the brain!!

dhw: It's all "ifs"! If consciousness is confined to the soul, then the brain cannot send consciousness to consciousness! NDEs provide evidence that consciousness can exist without the brain – hence evidence for dualism. Diseases, drugs, alcohol etc. provide evidence that consciousness is produced by the brain and is part of the brain, as vividly illustrated by your own comment: “a distorted brain creates a distorted consciousness.” Your insistence that sentient, cognitive, but brainless bacteria cannot have a soul - despite their independent, autonomous ability to change their own DNA, and despite your desperate attempts to change the meaning of the word “autonomous” into “dependent on God’s instructions” - has led you to make the following comment:

The bold is an assertion that is an unknown factor. Perhaps the soul and consciousness exist as a dualism, outside the body.

DAVID: I'll stay with no brain, no consciousness.

dhw: You could hardly have a more conclusive expression of support for materialism. However, we have both agreed that NDEs and other psychic experiences support dualism. We both know what dualism means and what materialism means, and so a few days ago you wrote: “I’ll admit we do not know the true answer.” There is no need to keep repeating the different sides of the case. You believe in dualism, and I remain neutral.

Good stopping point. Note my objection above.