More "miscellany" (General)

by David Turell @, Thursday, January 06, 2022, 15:59 (14 days ago) @ dhw

I'm re-opening this thread for the sake of convenience.


MATHS

DAVID: I don't understand how they calculate when mutations happened, but both ID and Darwinists do it in articles published. Somehow they calculate backwards in time.

dhw: If they both use maths to support their subjective views, it only goes to show that their maths prove nothing. And how can it, if they don’t know the actual cause of speciation?

They use DNA mutation clocks, don't ask me how with calculus I don't understand, not knowing how speciation works. New species have new mutations shown by comparisons of DNA decoded.


Consciousness
QUOTE: "SN: You argue that consciousness is unlikely to be exclusive to humans."
"Damasio: Right. We have different lineages in evolution, but it doesn’t mean that other creatures don’t have the possibility of getting to consciousness. Take, for example, the octopus. They have extremely complex behaviors. I would be flabbergasted if someone said they are not conscious. They have all the hallmarks of creatures that were able to develop a mind and have a sense of who they are and an awareness of how to protect themselves.
"

DAVID: So the octopus can do calculus? Yes animals are aware of bodily functions, but that doesn't mean they have the degree of consciousness we have. Our degree is very special, and Damasio's atheistic guesswork is just that.

dhw: He does not say the octopus can do calculus. I doubt if anyone in the world would claim that other creatures have the same DEGREE of consciousness as us! And the belief that other life forms have a degree of consciousness has nothing whatsoever to do with atheism! It is perfectly possible to believe that elephants, octopuses, weaverbirds, ants and bacteria have their own form and degree of consciousness and intelligence, and that this was given to them by your God. As usual, you are demonstrating what Shapiro calls “large organisms chauvinism”.

My obvious comparison is real and not chauvinism.


Evolution - Loss of traits
QUOTE: "The researchers showed that in zebra fish, loss-of-function mutations in the leucine transporter cause all fins to be short, while the overexpression mutation of the potassium channels causes all fins to be long. Either of those mutations by itself produces a clumsy fish. But when the two mutations are combined, the resulting zebra fish has long paired pectoral fins and shorter median fins, exactly the form of the flying fish. (David’s bold)

DAVID: more strong support for Behe's approach that evolution devolves to advance.

dhw: In this example we have a combination of loss and gain. We have already had this discussion. My proposal: If there is a new structure, or if an existing structure takes on a new function to meet a new requirement or to exploit a new opportunity, then it is inevitable that any structure which becomes unnecessary in the new conditions will lose its importance. The advance is not caused by the loss – the loss is the result of the advance.

What a convoluted twist! We are discussing genome mutation controls with loss of previously established DNA genes. Genes are removed with a new recombination of existing genes creating the phenotypic change.


Oxidative protection (Neanderthals and us)
QUOTE: "'The risk increases we see are large; several times increased risk of inflammatory bowel disease and vascular disease," says Hugo Zeberg.

DAVID: another finding which supports the theory that God preferred the arrival of modern humans with special attributes. Good we are not Neanderthals.

dhw: And a few days ago, you were telling us that your God produced all the different non-sapiens homos so that we would inherit all the good things they passed onto us. And what’s this about him preferring the “arrival”? According to you, modern humans didn’t just arrive. He designed all the good bits and the rotten bits of Neanderthal and the rest of the gang, and then he designed us. And bowel disease and vascular diseases are presumably the result of the “errors” your all-powerful God couldn’t avoid and couldn’t correct when he “had to” design the only system available to him.

An all knowing God knows what works to produce life nad God produced life from an inorganic universe he also created.


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