More "miscellany" (General)

by David Turell @, Saturday, November 20, 2021, 19:55 (14 days ago) @ dhw

dhw: You believe that your God operated on pre-whales in advance, to give them flippers instead of legs, and then he let them go into the water. Even in your theory, what was the purpose of giving them flippers? As you say, to prepare them for future survival. If the innovation is a preparation for survival, how can you then argue that the innovation is not driven by the need for the organism to survive?

DAVID: Again backward. Organisms must survive in evolution to produce the next stage, so design for survival is required as part of the new design. Survival does not drive the need for a new design as God designs evolution.

dhw: The next stage IS the new species, which results from the changes in the anatomy which have been designed to improve the organism’s chances of survival. Whether God does the designing in ADVANCE of environmental change, or the cell communities do it in RESPONSE to environmental change, makes no difference. In both cases, the purpose of the flippers is to improve chances of survival. I would suggest that the purpose is what drives any action. Wouldn’t you?

DAVID: Whose purpose is what is at issue. I see God's purpose in creating new species. Survival is simply a requirement for God to solve.

We are sadly edging back into your overall theory of evolution, which I was hoping to avoid now that we have shaken hands on dropping the subject. As I understand it, your reading of your God’s thoughts is as follows: “I wanner turn them pre-whales into a new species, because I wanner design human beings and their food. So I’m gonna operate on them pre-whales, take away their legs an’ give ‘em flippers instead. The flippers will help ‘em survive in the water though I’m not givin’ ‘em flippers to help ‘em survive in the water, but only because that will make ‘em into a new species.

Total distortion of my point. Design for survival is required in any new species in a new environment. But as God designs new species the requirement of survival is taken care of in the new design. You put it all backwards.

dhw: Please forgive the irreverent dialogue, and just see what sense you can make of the reasoning.

It makes perfect sense when one admits God creates all reality and all history any way He wishes. Evolution seemed to have happened (per Darwin) so God evolved us

dhw: My alternative: some pre-whales had difficulty finding enough food on land, and so they went hunting in the water. There was much more food available there, and so the cell communities responded to the new movements required and restructured the legs into flippers as an aid to survival in the new conditions. Too complicated?

No, too simple!! Phenotypic and physiological changers are too complex for simple cells to design. The complexity of design requires a designing mind, simple logic.

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