Brain expansion: different theories about rapid expansion (Evolution)

by David Turell @, Friday, September 25, 2020, 22:36 (26 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: We don't know at which stage of brain size the hippocampus was given the ability to add cells. We only know what happens now. God provided the extra cells for complexification in this brain and while it reorganized it shrunk. You can imagine anything else you wish to.

dhw: Since we only know what happens now, and we know that the brain cells autonomously complexify and even add new cells in response to new requirements, it is absurd to reject the possibility that the same thing happened in former times.

Blithely stating 'adding new cells in response to new requirements' while ignoring that the only cells we can add are to help the hippocampus with memory storage, i.e., is twisting what we know to aid you theory. Our oversized brain added cells to heavily used areas as it shrunk.

dhw: I asked you for proven instances, and all you can come up with is a repetition of your unproven theory that your God enlarged the brain in anticipation of the hominin producing new artefacts, whereas my theory is that the hominin’s brain expanded through the process of producing new artefacts! By contrast with your theory, I have the proven example of the modern brain, which changes IN RESPONSE to new requirements and not in anticipation of them.

DAVID: Same reversed twist. Our enlarged brain responded to new requirements and reorganized only after a long stasis period when it was not used differently than in the past and then it shrank as the new neurons were used.

dhw: There is no reverse twist. We are discussing the possible cause of expansion, which I propose was a RESPONSE to unknown new requirements. Thank you for confirming the known fact that brains do reorganize themselves in RESPONSE to new requirements. You complained that my theory is unproven, so I asked you for proven instances of the brain altering its structure BEFORE new cells are required. You couldn’t, whereas I have proven instances of the brain changing IN RESPONSE to new requirements. And yet again: post-expansion stasis (resulting from the fact that there were no new requirements) and shrinkage (because efficient complexification made certain cells redundant) are irrelevant to the question of WHAT MADE BRAINS EXPAND. Please stick to the point.

I'm exactly on point as you twist facts to fit our natural theory. OUR brains do 'reorganize' using the extra cells they started with. What haven't I proven. please deal only with what we know and then theorize if you wish. Of course I couldn't answer your bold. God enlarges and prepares each new stage for new mental developments. The last part of the bold is a truism. Our brain does respond to new requirements. It was set up to do so b y God.

DAVID: I don't accept your strange version of why errors occur. I have God in control.

dhw: Having told me I want errors to run evolution – the exact opposite of what I have said – you now refer to an explanation of why errors occur, whereas I keep repeating that in the context of evolution there are NO errors! You are the one who keeps harping on about evolutionary errors! In my theory, the changes are designed (by the cells). And how can your God be in control if he has given molecules the freedom not to follow his instructions?

DAVID: My approach, as usual, is totally different. To answer the bold, God purposely set up the best system of living biochemistry He could. He ran a tight program of evolution, as noted in today's other entry that presents convergence again. God would trust intelligent cells that He created only if He gave them explicit guidelines for new advances. All presented before.

dhw: The “best system” entailed giving molecules the freedom to disobey his instructions, which means he is NOT in control! That is why, according to you, he did his best to correct the errors but sometimes failed. Convergence fits the pattern of intelligent cells responding in similar ways to similar problems. If God was unable to control disease-causing cells which disobeyed his instructions, why do you assume that evolutionary cells could do nothing but follow his instructions?

Your 'best system' is not my considered biochemical thinking about the freedom of molecules. The molecules must be free in order for the high speed manufacturing and cell splitting can go on at the speed it must have in a liquid environment. They don't work on a solid assembly line but still work like 24-hour factories. Frankly, I wish you appreciated this. Your theorizing is skipping over all of the absolute requirements.

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