Brain expansion (Evolution)

by dhw, Tuesday, June 09, 2020, 11:08 (504 days ago) @ David Turell

QUOTE: “[…] The mechanism, which has striking parallels with the more sophisticated brain neurons, could open up the development of living computers made of cells.

dhw: My proposal, then: As single intelligent cells joined together in intelligent cell communities, they produced ever more “sophisticated” forms of memory, object recognition etc., much as scientists today build on the discoveries of yesterday’s scientists.

DAVID: The so-called memory is not brain-based memory, but electro-mechanical changes in a bacterial outer membrane. It is not a memory in the sense of our memories and these changes are common in the biochemistry of life. I view the article as pure hype, and in no way will it tell us how neurons work, as foolishly suggested in the write-up.

They never claimed that it was our sort of memory! They were demonstrating that bacteria had memory, and there were parallels to our neurons! I used this simply as an example of how simple may have advanced to complex as outlined in my proposal above.

dhw: Now please tell us why a God who can organize autonomous complexification is incapable of organizing autonomous expansion.

DAVID: Requires exact design planning of parts( regions and connecting tracts of the newly expanded brain. Complexification is a much more simple process of reorganization of what is currently present. […]

Human brain expansion did not result in new parts. Our fellow animals have the same parts with the same functions as ours. But certain parts of our brains expanded and theirs did not. (This is not to downplay the vast gap between our consciousness levels and theirs. I am merely responding to your reference to "parts".) I don’t understand why you think the cell communities that make up the different parts of the brain can respond autonomously to new requirements by reorganizing what already exists (complexification), but can’t possibly have responded autonomously to new requirements by adding to what already exists (expansion).

dhw: . redIf God created a mechanism for the autonomous production of different attributes,red and you yourself have insisted that these attributes account for there being different species, then perhaps we have a blueprint for all speciation: cell communities respond to, adapt to, cope with, and perhaps even exploit different conditions and thus develop different attributes.all

DAVID: Did you read what I wrote? All humans living at altitude can increase their red cell population. I assume the Denisovans genetically had a stronger mechanism, epigenetic change nothing more. Neanderthals with different immune experiences provide some protections for us though interbreeding. No special cell committees involved.

dhw: You wrote that as the many hominin/homo varieties interbred, "they provided/developed naturally different beneficial attributes to the final sapiens species." So I don't know why you then chose high altitude adaptation as your example. But the principle of the autonomous mechanism is clear. Now you've switched to Neanderthal immune "experiences". Dabbled or autonomous? What "attributes" were you referring to? And what is your objection to the bolded extrapolation from your comments - other than the fact that like your own theory, it is unproven?

DAVID: All I have done is quote the current accepted literature about these interbred attributes. The Neanderthals gave us certain immune attributes. So? The Neanderthals had an immune mechanism, provided by God's design and different exposures than Sapiens, so the combination was helpful. I've discussed the magical immunity system and how it is designed to act over a lifetime to create a huge library of antibodies and other defenses as it meets different pathogens. Your comment in red bold is pure invention. God designed each attribute into humans. There never was a separate attribution design mechanism.

So now we have autonomous adaptations, e.g. to altitude, but the immune system was a dabble. But the immune system itself functions through a process of ongoing adaptations, as you’ve just described. It constantly adapts itself to cope with whatever hostile forces attack it. And as such, no doubt it has complexified (apparently an autonomous process) as time has confronted it with more and more problems to tackle. And why have you singled out the human immune system anyway? As with the brain, our fellow animals also have immune systems! Did your God dabble those too before specially dabbling ours?

What I’m suggesting is that if your God created a mechanism for autonomous adaptation, the same mechanism could also be responsible for what you call attributes – and indeed it is sometimes difficult to distinguish between the two, since both are so dependent on the interaction between cell communities and the environment. I’m afraid I really can’t accept the authority with which you phrase your concluding statement. Opinion should never be stated as if it were fact.

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