BELIEF is not complicated. (Introduction)

by dhw, Sunday, June 01, 2008, 09:18 (6017 days ago) @ Cary Cook

This is a reply to Cary's posting on May 31 at 06.58, but takes into account the latest posting. - Point 1) Cary says that if there is a "just" afterlife, ethics will be the basis of our pleasure/displeasure ratio, and duration of life will depend on rewards and punishments. - I didn't know that there was limited "duration" in the Christian concept of a possible afterlife, but maybe you can expound on this later. I agree that there are problems in relation to masochism, but with the proviso that our pleasures should cause no harm to ourselves or others, I still don't understand why you should think a just God's ethics will be different from your own, and you therefore have to adapt your earthly way of life accordingly. - Point 2) "Judgment of probability is an involuntary act". "Your judgment at any point in time will be based on evidence & logic (and possibly intuition), but not on your will." Thank you, I get it now. But I find your use of "involuntary" misleading. (Misunderstandings so often come down to different interpretations of individual words.) For me, this does not simply entail independence from the will, but also a lack of consciousness and control, whereas in judging something to be probable, I am conscious and I at least have the impression that I am in control, not of the facts but of the process of interpretation that leads to my judgment. Would it not be clearer to say that JUDGMENT OF PROBABILITY is independent of the will? - Your second type of belief, which you call "trust" and equate with a "willful" decision to act, is also clear to me now in the context of your own definitions, but I will try to explain why I find it unsatisfactory. Firstly, although belief may be the basis of action, I don't see how it can be called a decision to act. Secondly, I believe (type 1) that many people follow religions not because of any probability judgment but because they have grown up with certain doctrines which have become part of their instinctive make-up. Call it trust, belief or faith (you also mark these as synonymous in your concept clarifier), but I see no exertion of will here. Your own decision to bet on a just afterlife is clear, but the only belief involved seems to be that this will give you a better chance of rewards, and that is another judgment of probability. The wilfulness lies in choosing to follow one probability judgment instead of another. - Let me be tiresomely conventional and adapt a dictionary definition in order to clarify what I understand by belief: acceptance that something is true, real, or has other qualities, underpinned by an emotional or spiritual sense of certainty and/or by a probability judgment. Lacks the certitude of knowledge, although the two concepts are sometimes confused, and the borders are indistinct. Perhaps it would be helpful if you were to say why this is unsatisfactory.