Evolution: a different view with loss of DNA segments (Introduction)

by David Turell @, Wednesday, January 09, 2019, 15:28 (160 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: […] the 3.8 byo program allows the organisms to modify their DNA only for adaptations.

dhw: […] are you telling us that your God programmed nothing but minor adaptations…and dabbled every single major innovation?

DAVID: We differ completely in that I am sure design is required for each advanced species.

dhw: Please say whether my interpretation of the first remark is correct. I agree that design is required (as opposed to chance), and as you well know, I propose a (possibly God-given) mechanism for autonomous change through intelligent cells/cell communities.

My view is still that God creates major speciation by one method or another, either having it built into the original 3.8 byo DNA with coded changes or perhaps by deletion as Behe is saying. I've viewed dabbles as wolf/dog changes which humans did in this case, but God did it before humans stepped into the process

dhw: See my bold above for the small group. Did you want me to say "tiny" instead of small? Why do you need a large group to make large mutations?

DAVID: The point is simple: if mutations cause speciation and have to occur by chance, a small of group of hominins with a new generation every 18-20 years is extremely unlikely to have produced the body form and brain changes in the short geological time we know happened.

dhw: Why do you keep harping on about chance? We have long since agreed that it was not by chance. ...I propose that local conditions led to a small group descending from the trees (no need for their brothers and sisters to change) and life on the ground triggered the changes made by their intelligent cell communities to enable them . Nothing to do with chance, and nothing to do with the size of the group, although once more: neither of these hypotheses have been proved.

It has everything to do with the size of the group. From ape to erectus in two-three million years ( a moment in the grand scheme of 3.8 billion) means rapid fire mutations, all working together for the advance. I'm not arguing about chance. I'm claiming only deliberate design fits, and not by brainless cell committees.

Dhw: One of the problems in our exchanges is that sometimes you say one thing and then later say the opposite. That is why we need these constant clarifications. Under “Genome complexity”, 3 January at 19.03: The question is…whether your God’s “information/instructions used by the cell” means a specific, 3.8 billion-year-old programme for every single change in the history of evolution […] or a mechanism which enables the cell to change itself autonomously…

DAVID: The only issue here is I believe God gave the cells that mechanism.

dhw: What mechanism were you referring to?

DAVID: Same old answer. I don't change. Cells have (per Shapiro) the ability to make small modifications to their activities by editing their DNA, an ability given by God's design. They cannot create their own speciation by design.

dhw: So please tell me what mechanism you were referring to when you said the only issue was that you believe God gave the cells “that mechanism”. If you wish to withdraw the statement, then by all means do so, and revert to your 3.8 byo programme (plus dabbling). I am only asking for clarification.

'That mechanism' is Shapiro's result. Cells can modify their DNA for minor adaptions to changes in requirements or stimuli. But they are still the same cells. What is not clear?

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