Evolution: common descent not shown by genetics (Introduction)
DAVID: Studies of DNA at various levels of evolution do not fit common descent:
http://nautil.us/issue/9/time/evolution-youre-drunk
Thank you for this very important article. It certainly knocks on the head your hypothesis that evolution advances through a drive to complexity, but it also requires a wriggle from me to adjust my own hypothesis. First, though, a correction:
QUOTE: "The idea of directionality in nature, a gradient from simple to complex, began with the Greeks, who called nature physis, meaning growth. That idea subtly extended from changes over an organism’s lifetime, to changes over evolutionary time after Charles Darwin argued that all animals descend from a single common ancestor."
Darwin: “There is grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed by the Creator into a few forms or into one…” The alternative “few forms” is important in the context of this article.
QUOTE: "Casey Dunn, an evolutionary biologist at Brown University in Providence, R.I. who took part in the still-contentious comb jelly project, now doubts all notions of increasing complexity. Instead, he says the environment selects whatever form handles the challenges at hand, be it simple, complex, or plain ugly. Mother Nature, with her 4 billion years of experience, does not work like Steve Jobs, continuously designing sleeker versions. When asked whether de-evolution, a reversal from the complex to the simple, happens frequently, Dunn replies, sure. “But,” he adds, “I wouldn’t call that de-evolution, I’d call it evolution.'”
DAVID's comment: This is a Darwinist showing her prejudice. DNA does not support common descent, but she can't think of it as God guiding. I've had to skip many of her examples of evolution running backward.
Casey is a “he” apparently. Please forget your prejudice against Darwin and in favour of divine guidance for every evolutionary development, and focus on the argument. A few original forms, as opposed to one, solve the problem at a stroke: some were simple and some were complex, and so there are different lines of descent. But Dunn’s link with the environment is crucial. Reversal is nothing new. Darwin regards vestigial organs as evidence for common descent, and this might give us a clue as to how the whole process works. All organisms MUST be able to cope with their environment, and there is no reason why this should necessitate increasing complexity (think of bacteria). As each organism finds its niche, it may add or delete accordingly. My own hypothesis (evolution is driven by the quest for survival and/or improvement) needs to be tweaked, because the same quest may lead not to innovation but to regression, which would result from a response to particular environmental conditions. Complexity in itself is therefore irrelevant: the decisive factor is change that will improve the organism’s chances of survival and/or way of life. Once cells joined themselves into communities, they had an almost infinite potential of forms – some simple, some complex. Hence the ever changing bush, with organisms coming and going, complexifying or simplifying, as they coped or failed to cope with or exploited the ever changing environment. Why must God guide it all? If he exists, he would have invented the mechanism that gave rise to this vast potential and hence to the ever changing bush.
Complete thread:
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- Evolution: a different view -
dhw,
2015-05-17, 12:26
- Evolution: a different view -
David Turell,
2015-05-16, 00:17
- Evolution: a different view -
Balance_Maintained,
2015-05-15, 17:47
- Evolution: a different view -
David Turell,
2015-05-14, 19:05
- Evolution: a different view -
dhw,
2015-05-14, 13:46
- Evolution: a different view -
David Turell,
2015-05-13, 00:33
- Evolution: a different view -
dhw,
2015-05-12, 22:42
- Evolution: a different view -
David Turell,
2015-05-11, 21:49
- Evolution: a different view -
David Turell,
2015-05-10, 21:49
- Evolution: a different view -
Balance_Maintained,
2015-05-10, 09:49
- Evolution: a different view -
David Turell,
2015-05-09, 21:53
- Evolution: a different view -
dhw,
2015-05-09, 11:30
- Evolution: a different view -
David Turell,
2015-05-08, 02:06
- Evolution: a different view -
Balance_Maintained,
2015-05-07, 15:50
- Evolution: a different view -
David Turell,
2015-05-07, 15:13
- Evolution: a different view -
Balance_Maintained,
2015-05-07, 09:12
- Evolution: a different view -
David Turell,
2015-05-06, 22:18
- Evolution: a different view -
dhw,
2015-05-06, 21:23
- Evolution: a different view -
David Turell,
2015-05-05, 00:15
- Evolution: a different view -
David Turell,
2015-05-02, 21:50
- Evolution: a different view -
David Turell,
2015-05-02, 21:40
- Evolution: a different view; convergence -
David Turell,
2015-05-01, 14:32
- Evolution: a different view -
David Turell,
2015-05-01, 02:49
- Evolution: a different view -
dhw,
2015-04-30, 21:06
- Evolution: a different view -
David Turell,
2015-04-29, 18:51
- Evolution: a different view -
George Jelliss,
2015-05-21, 21:52
- Evolution: a different view - David Turell, 2015-05-22, 02:26
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits -
David Turell,
2018-11-16, 00:54
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits - David Turell, 2018-11-16, 02:02
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; jellyfish -
David Turell,
2018-12-03, 19:14
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; jellyfish -
dhw,
2018-12-04, 14:40
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; jellyfish -
David Turell,
2018-12-04, 18:44
- Evolution: the presence of life evolves the Earth -
David Turell,
2018-12-04, 19:04
- Evolution: the presence of life evolves the Earth -
David Turell,
2020-10-01, 17:58
- Evolution: the presence of life evolves the Earth -
David Turell,
2020-10-02, 21:31
- Evolution: possible origin of apoptosis -
David Turell,
2020-10-05, 23:38
- Evolution: moles strange heterosexuality -
David Turell,
2020-10-08, 19:53
- Evolution: complexity, protein language & information - David Turell, 2020-10-09, 19:49
- Evolution: a mechanism of apoptosis -
David Turell,
2022-02-17, 19:39
- Evolution: more convergence - David Turell, 2022-02-19, 15:45
- Evolution: moles strange heterosexuality -
David Turell,
2020-10-08, 19:53
- Evolution: the presence of life evolves the Earth -
David Turell,
2020-10-10, 19:09
- Evolution: the presence of life evolves the Earth -
dhw,
2020-10-11, 13:02
- Evolution: the presence of life evolves the Earth - David Turell, 2020-10-11, 15:35
- Evolution: the presence of life evolves the Earth -
dhw,
2020-10-11, 13:02
- Evolution: possible origin of apoptosis -
David Turell,
2020-10-05, 23:38
- Evolution: the presence of life evolves the Earth -
David Turell,
2020-10-02, 21:31
- Evolution: the presence of life evolves the Earth -
David Turell,
2020-10-01, 17:58
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; jellyfish - dhw, 2018-12-05, 11:45
- Evolution: the presence of life evolves the Earth -
David Turell,
2018-12-04, 19:04
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; jellyfish -
David Turell,
2018-12-04, 18:44
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; jellyfish -
dhw,
2018-12-04, 14:40
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; more Behe -
David Turell,
2019-01-02, 23:33
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; more Behe -
dhw,
2019-01-03, 10:29
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; more Behe -
David Turell,
2019-01-03, 19:04
- Evolution: a different view with loss of DNA segments -
David Turell,
2019-01-04, 19:17
- Evolution: a different view with loss of DNA segments -
dhw,
2019-01-05, 12:52
- Evolution: a different view with loss of DNA segments -
David Turell,
2019-01-05, 15:13
- Evolution: a different view with loss of DNA segments -
dhw,
2019-01-06, 10:44
- Evolution: a different view with loss of DNA segments -
David Turell,
2019-01-06, 18:54
- Evolution: a different view with loss of DNA segments -
dhw,
2019-01-07, 11:42
- Evolution: a different view with loss of DNA segments -
David Turell,
2019-01-08, 22:10
- Evolution: a different view with loss of DNA segments -
dhw,
2019-01-09, 12:18
- Evolution: a different view with loss of DNA segments -
David Turell,
2019-01-09, 15:28
- Evolution: a different view with loss of DNA segments -
dhw,
2019-01-10, 13:26
- Evolution: a different view with loss of DNA segments -
David Turell,
2019-01-10, 19:39
- Evolution: a different view with loss of complexity - David Turell, 2019-01-11, 00:42
- Evolution: a different view with loss of DNA segments -
dhw,
2019-01-11, 12:59
- Evolution: a different view with loss of DNA segments - David Turell, 2019-01-11, 22:45
- Evolution: a different view with loss of DNA segments -
David Turell,
2019-01-10, 19:39
- Evolution: a different view with loss of DNA segments -
dhw,
2019-01-10, 13:26
- Evolution: a different view with loss of DNA segments -
David Turell,
2019-01-09, 15:28
- Evolution: a different view with loss of DNA segments -
dhw,
2019-01-09, 12:18
- Evolution: a different view with loss of DNA segments -
David Turell,
2019-01-08, 22:10
- Evolution: a different view with loss of DNA segments -
dhw,
2019-01-07, 11:42
- Evolution: a different view with loss of DNA segments -
David Turell,
2019-01-06, 18:54
- Evolution: a different view with loss of DNA segments -
David Turell,
2022-03-27, 17:09
- Evolution: losing legs to make a snake - David Turell, 2022-03-28, 20:38
- Evolution: a different view with loss of DNA segments -
dhw,
2019-01-06, 10:44
- Evolution: a different view with loss of DNA segments -
David Turell,
2019-01-05, 15:13
- Evolution: a different view with loss of DNA segments -
dhw,
2019-01-05, 12:52
- Evolution: a different view with loss of DNA segments -
David Turell,
2019-01-04, 19:17
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; more Behe -
David Turell,
2019-01-03, 19:04
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; not Behe - David Turell, 2020-05-20, 15:31
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; not Behe -
David Turell,
2020-09-01, 17:29
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; not Behe -
dhw,
2020-09-02, 11:36
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; not Behe -
David Turell,
2020-09-02, 20:50
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; not Behe -
dhw,
2020-09-03, 11:32
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; not Behe -
David Turell,
2020-09-03, 19:43
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; not Behe -
dhw,
2020-09-04, 09:25
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; not Behe -
David Turell,
2020-09-04, 18:24
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; not Behe -
dhw,
2020-09-05, 11:06
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; not Behe -
David Turell,
2020-09-05, 19:35
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; not Behe -
dhw,
2020-09-06, 12:22
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; not Behe -
David Turell,
2020-09-06, 15:11
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; not Behe -
dhw,
2020-09-07, 14:38
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; not Behe -
David Turell,
2020-09-07, 15:47
- Evolution: viruses critical role - David Turell, 2020-09-07, 18:50
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; not Behe -
dhw,
2020-09-08, 12:13
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; not Behe -
David Turell,
2020-09-08, 15:58
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; not Behe -
dhw,
2020-09-09, 07:36
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; not Behe -
David Turell,
2020-09-09, 22:47
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; not Behe -
dhw,
2020-09-10, 12:51
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; not Behe -
David Turell,
2020-09-10, 21:13
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; not Behe -
dhw,
2020-09-11, 14:12
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; not Behe -
David Turell,
2020-09-11, 22:18
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; not Behe -
dhw,
2020-09-12, 12:51
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; not Behe -
David Turell,
2020-09-12, 19:14
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; not Behe -
dhw,
2020-09-13, 12:56
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; not Behe -
David Turell,
2020-09-13, 18:49
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; not Behe -
dhw,
2020-09-14, 13:57
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; not Behe -
David Turell,
2020-09-14, 19:00
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; not Behe -
dhw,
2020-09-15, 12:01
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; not Behe -
David Turell,
2020-09-15, 15:23
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; not Behe -
dhw,
2020-09-16, 11:01
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; not Behe -
David Turell,
2020-09-16, 19:23
- Evolution: vertebrate driving genes; not Behe - David Turell, 2020-09-16, 20:40
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; not Behe -
dhw,
2020-09-17, 10:34
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; not Behe -
David Turell,
2020-09-17, 18:54
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; not Behe - dhw, 2020-09-18, 11:09
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; not Behe -
David Turell,
2020-09-17, 18:54
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; not Behe -
David Turell,
2021-02-18, 01:53
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; not Behe -
dhw,
2021-02-18, 11:19
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; not Behe -
David Turell,
2021-02-18, 16:04
- Evolution: Cambrian animal start defined -
David Turell,
2021-11-04, 13:44
- Evolution: strange changes in DNA form - David Turell, 2021-11-06, 14:15
- Evolution: giant aquatic arthropods 470 mya - David Turell, 2022-12-13, 17:25
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; not Behe -
David Turell,
2022-01-05, 21:06
- Evolution: mass extinctions relate to volcanos - David Turell, 2022-02-01, 15:25
- Evolution: sudden change from a gene loss - David Turell, 2022-02-16, 19:37
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; not Behe - David Turell, 2022-05-02, 19:51
- Evolution: Cambrian animal start defined -
David Turell,
2021-11-04, 13:44
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; not Behe -
David Turell,
2021-02-18, 16:04
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; not Behe -
David Turell,
2022-08-10, 22:58
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; not Behe -
David Turell,
2022-09-23, 19:15
- Evolution: more advances related to more microRNA -
David Turell,
2022-12-16, 21:54
- Evolution: hybridization in ants -
David Turell,
2022-12-21, 21:03
- Evolution: can natural forces drive evolution -
David Turell,
2023-10-04, 19:44
- Evolution: strange animals don't have to eat: -
David Turell,
2023-10-05, 19:54
- Evolution: the angiosperm gap -
David Turell,
2023-10-05, 20:34
- Evolution: the angiosperm gap -
David Turell,
2023-10-27, 19:30
- Evolution: how the complex cell formed -
David Turell,
2023-10-29, 17:02
- Evolution: how bacteria use essential amino acids -
David Turell,
2023-11-23, 17:30
- Evolution: bacteria pass information through generations -
David Turell,
2023-11-23, 18:09
- Evolution: is it predictable? -
David Turell,
2024-01-30, 18:44
- Evolution: new stromatolites in Saudi Arabia -
David Turell,
2024-06-01, 18:03
- Evolution: Lamarck is back -
David Turell,
2024-06-04, 22:14
- Evolution: Darwin's abominable mystery again -
David Turell,
2024-06-14, 16:53
- Evolution: the role of viral DNA -
David Turell,
2024-07-19, 20:06
- Evolution: the origin of a nervous system - David Turell, 2024-08-13, 21:18
- Evolution: the role of viral DNA -
David Turell,
2024-07-19, 20:06
- Evolution: Darwin's abominable mystery again -
David Turell,
2024-06-14, 16:53
- Evolution: Lamarck is back -
David Turell,
2024-06-04, 22:14
- Evolution: new stromatolites in Saudi Arabia -
David Turell,
2024-06-01, 18:03
- Evolution: is it predictable? -
David Turell,
2024-01-30, 18:44
- Evolution: bacteria pass information through generations -
David Turell,
2023-11-23, 18:09
- Evolution: how bacteria use essential amino acids -
David Turell,
2023-11-23, 17:30
- Evolution: how the complex cell formed -
David Turell,
2023-10-29, 17:02
- Evolution: the angiosperm gap -
David Turell,
2023-10-27, 19:30
- Evolution: the angiosperm gap -
David Turell,
2023-10-05, 20:34
- Evolution: strange animals don't have to eat: -
David Turell,
2023-10-05, 19:54
- Evolution: can natural forces drive evolution -
David Turell,
2023-10-04, 19:44
- Evolution: hybridization in ants -
David Turell,
2022-12-21, 21:03
- Evolution: more advances related to more microRNA -
David Turell,
2022-12-16, 21:54
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; not Behe -
David Turell,
2022-09-23, 19:15
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; not Behe -
dhw,
2021-02-18, 11:19
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; not Behe -
David Turell,
2020-09-16, 19:23
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; not Behe -
dhw,
2020-09-16, 11:01
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; not Behe -
David Turell,
2020-09-15, 15:23
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; not Behe -
dhw,
2020-09-15, 12:01
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; not Behe -
David Turell,
2020-09-14, 19:00
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; not Behe -
dhw,
2020-09-14, 13:57
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; not Behe -
David Turell,
2020-09-13, 18:49
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; not Behe -
dhw,
2020-09-13, 12:56
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; not Behe -
David Turell,
2020-09-12, 19:14
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; not Behe -
dhw,
2020-09-12, 12:51
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; not Behe -
David Turell,
2020-09-11, 22:18
- Evolution: how viruses might fit in - David Turell, 2021-04-25, 17:17
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; not Behe -
dhw,
2020-09-11, 14:12
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; not Behe -
David Turell,
2020-09-10, 21:13
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; not Behe -
dhw,
2020-09-10, 12:51
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; not Behe -
David Turell,
2020-09-09, 22:47
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; not Behe -
dhw,
2020-09-09, 07:36
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; not Behe -
David Turell,
2020-09-08, 15:58
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; not Behe -
David Turell,
2020-09-07, 15:47
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; not Behe -
dhw,
2020-09-07, 14:38
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; not Behe -
David Turell,
2020-09-06, 15:11
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; not Behe -
dhw,
2020-09-06, 12:22
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; not Behe -
David Turell,
2020-09-05, 19:35
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; not Behe -
dhw,
2020-09-05, 11:06
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; not Behe -
David Turell,
2020-09-04, 18:24
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; not Behe -
dhw,
2020-09-04, 09:25
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; not Behe -
David Turell,
2020-09-03, 19:43
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; not Behe -
dhw,
2020-09-03, 11:32
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; not Behe -
David Turell,
2020-09-02, 20:50
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; not Behe -
dhw,
2020-09-02, 11:36
- Evolution: a different view with loss of traits; more Behe -
dhw,
2019-01-03, 10:29
- Evolution: a different view -
dhw,
2015-04-29, 13:18