Biochemistry of cell communication; message molecules (Introduction)

by dhw, Tuesday, February 20, 2018, 10:51 (2467 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID’s comment: We see here a system as complex as our brain's relationship to its s/s/c, in that information (immaterial) is transmitted by material timing actions by the molecules. Yet we can ask, are cells truly conscious in and of themselves? That consciousness fully pervades all levels of the universe is reasonable. And I believe God is universal consciousness.

dhw: What do you mean by “truly” conscious? I don’t think any of us would suggest that cells are as conscious of the universe and of themselves as we are. Nor is your dog. But if you are now telling us you find it reasonable that ALL levels have a degree of consciousness, this suggests that at long, long last you are just beginning to accept the possibility that cells are intelligent...

DAVID: ... My main point was to illustrate that the actions of biochemical molecules have all the appearance of conscious purposeful events. But I do not believe those individual molecules are actually conscious. They are a product of design which results in the emergence of life from their activities.

dhw: As so often before, though givest with one hand and taketh away with the other. Cells appear to be conscious, and “that consciousness fully pervades all levels of the universe is reasonable” (my bold), so it must reasonable to propose that what appears to be conscious IS conscious. But you don’t believe it. Ah well, I’ll settle for the fact that the proposal now seems reasonable to you!

DAVID: Have you forgotten that I think God's consciousness pervades all of the universe?

What does this mean? Is your level of consciousness your own or God’s? Is your dog’s level of consciousness its own or God's? Is an ant’s level of consciousness its own or God’s? Is a bacterium’s level of consciousness its own or God’s? Have you forgotten what you wrote: “That consciousness fully pervades all levels of the universe is reasonable. And I believe God is universal consciousness.” That makes you a theistic panpsychist. It also means that cells are conscious at the level of cell consciousness.