Biochemistry of cell communication; message molecules (Introduction)

by David Turell , Monday, February 19, 2018, 15:49 (2468 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: A deep study as to how they communicate signals, and it is not simple:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/02/180216150338.htm

QUOTE: "Cells speak only a handful of different molecular languages but they have to work together to carry out an incredible diversity of tasks," says Elowitz. "We've generally assumed these languages are extremely simple, and cells can basically only grunt at each other. By watching cells in the process of communicating, we can see that these languages are more sophisticated and have a larger vocabulary than we ever thought. And this is probably just the tip of an iceberg for intercellular communication.'" (David's bold)

DAVID’s comment: We see here a system as complex as our brain's relationship to its s/s/c, in that information (immaterial) is transmitted by material timing actions by the molecules. Yet we can ask, are cells truly conscious in and of themselves? That consciousness fully pervades all levels of the universe is reasonable. And I believe God is universal consciousness.

dhw: What do you mean by “truly” conscious? I don’t think any of us would suggest that cells are as conscious of the universe and of themselves as we are. Nor is your dog. But if you are now telling us you find it reasonable that ALL levels have a degree of consciousness, this suggests that at long, long last you are just beginning to accept the possibility that cells are intelligent. I must very sincerely thank you, as always, for your admirable integrity in producing articles which support hypotheses that you are opposed to. That is in the true spirit of our forum, which should always be a quest for truth and not for mere confirmation of existing beliefs or disbeliefs.

DAVID: Thank you for your kind comments. My main point was to illustrate that the actions of biochemical molecules have all the appearance of conscious purposeful events. But I do not believe those individual molecules are actually conscious. They are a product of design which results in the emergence of life from their activities.

dhw: As so often before, though givest with one hand and taketh away with the other. Cells appear to be conscious, and “that consciousness fully pervades all levels of the universe is reasonable” (my bold), so it must reasonable to propose that what appears to be conscious IS conscious. But you don’t believe it. Ah well, I’ll settle for the fact that the proposal now seems reasonable to you!

Have you forgotten that I think God's consciousness pervades all of the universe?