How children pick up a language: new review of Wolfe (Humans)

by dhw, Sunday, November 13, 2016, 13:12 (2931 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: For an innovation to work, all the mutations must take place at the same time within each organism. You can’t have one bit of the innovation in one organism and another bit in another organism! Math logic refutes the claim that random mutations can cause speciation in the time available. I cannot see any math logic behind the claim that you need large numbers of different organisms to produce the same innovation that leads to speciation. If God dabbled, couldn’t he do so with just a few and then leave them to reproduce?

DAVID: You still have to guarantee adequate reproduction which was Haldane's point. And the other issue is the number of mutations required for complex innovations as seen in new species, as shown in this recent entry of mine:
Friday, November 11, 2016, 22:59

"Comment: this is another example of the many layers of the genome, showing how complex the genome really is. Further note the bolded area that described how many genes are needed to control this process of dormancy. Recognize that when this system developed in bacteria it required multiple genes, and strongly suggests it developed by saltation. The other takeaway is that when a new process is developed, just as when a new species develops, large families of cooperating genes must be developed simultaneously."
Just think about the logic here. We see huge gaps in phenotype in new species. Think of the thousands of mutations that must be present. Does the new animal only breed with other new animals, or breed with old animals forming hybrids. We don't see hybrid forms in the gap fossils! Therefore new animals breed with new animals, therefore new species start with a large population as the gaps suggest.

There are two distinct points here: 1) that any innovation requires the cooperation of all the cell communities (= large families of cooperating genes) within the individual organism. Absolutely no disagreement; 2) that a large population of the new species is required right from the beginning in order for it to survive. How can gaps suggest a large population? Gaps suggest saltation, and that’s all. Every innovation must take place in individuals, and even allowing for convergent evolution, each one will take place in a particular location. It is self-evident that there must be enough of these individuals to guarantee reproduction. Does Haldane tell us how many? According to the Bible, two were enough, but we are not great believers in that story, so give us a clue. What do the mathematicians regard as a viable number to start a new species?

And while on the subject of maths, according to you God provided the first living cells with programmes for every single innovation and natural wonder in the history of evolution (apart from those he dabbled). Mathematically, how many cells do you reckon he would have needed at the very beginning to “guarantee” the survival of all these millions of programmes through the three point something billion years till they ended up (so far) with the weaverbird’s nest, the duckbilled platypus and us human beings?