Sheldrake's Morphogenic Field - Innovation (Evolution)

by dhw, Friday, October 28, 2016, 12:36 (2946 days ago) @ BBella

BBELLA: Can you give an example of the level you are talking about that has different forces? I am only thinking of one force that holds all things together, processing all matter and energy to create what IS, including the memory of the morphic field/s.

I gave the example of evolution, using my hypothesis of individual intelligent cells/cells communities, each with its own morphic field, combining their intelligences to create every organism that ever lived.

BBELLA: Ok, I see where you were going with the word "forces" instead of force, by using it interchangeably with the word intelligence's. Although, I was using the word force to sum up all forces, like someone would use the word wood to sum up all things wood, even though there is a lot of different types and kinds of wood - they are all wood. So it was on that level I used the word force instead of forces. Because all forces are force. But is all force intelligent? I'm not sure. I'm not even sure intelligence is another word for force or more a type/kind of force? Maybe intelligence has it's own morphic field and is one of the many forces?

I used cellular intelligence to illustrate what I mean by different forces. But I gave you another example which did not (in my opinion) involve intelligence: the wind driving the waves to bring down the cliff. I would describe them as separate, non-intelligent forces, although of course they can combine, just as intelligent ones do. My point is that instead of one force “holding them together” or “processing” everything that happens, there may only be individual forces constantly acting, reacting and interacting. That’s why earlier I used the expression bottom up as opposed to top down, with the latter suggesting some sort of overall control, as opposed to things developing in their own way. As usual with me, I can see arguments for both sides!

Dhw: Yes, all morphic fields are part of the one great morphic field which is the universe, and morphic fields can connect up with each other, but I can’t see disembodied “consciousness” as a morphic field that exists independently of individual beings.
BBELLA: I agree that all morphic fields are a part of the one morphic field, and do not see consciousness as an independent, disembodied morphic field. But, I can see how consciousness can have it's own morphic field. No morphic field is an independent field separate unto itself. All fields are dependent and exist within a symbiotic relationship with other fields.

That is why I say it depends on the level you are focusing on. BBella’s morphic field is not dhw’s morphic field. Each individual has his/her own. But our morphic fields depend on other morphic fields for their existence, for example, what I called the generic one of the human race. We are not chimps – they have their own generic morphic field as well, though each chimp will also have its individual morphic field . But I cannot see consciousness as having a morphic field all of its own. It is always part of individual beings.(I can't "see" anything anyway - I'm just groping around for a pattern that makes sense to me!)

BBELLA: Consciousness may exist as a morphic field in different levels of existence within all or many things - yet effect all things. We believe we are the highest level of consciousness - though some may think there is a God that has a higher level of consciousness than our own. Then some may think there are levels higher than humans but not as high as God, like alien beings or angels, etc. Humans may just be a different level of these types of beings. So, it makes sense to me then that consciousness could have it's own levels of morphic fields as well.

I agree completely that there are different levels of consciousness, but in all these cases, it is part of individual beings: aliens, animals, insects and in my opinion probably microorganisms as well. It doesn’t exist “on its own”.

Dhw: Even David’s world of the afterlife, in which we retain our identity, would consist of individual consciousnesses, not consciousness as a whole with a morphic field of its own. Only a universal consciousness (= some sort of God) of which all consciousnesses are a part would have a morphic field of its own.
BBELLA: Yes, of course there are individual consciousness, just like there are individual bacteria, humans, plants and animals etc. But that doesnt preclude there being one morphic field for consciousness - just like there is one morphic field for humans, dogs, etc. Bacteria live in all those mentioned, so might morphic fields inhabit all or many things as well on many different levels.

Same problem for me: humans, dogs, cats, bacteria are all species of living organisms. Consciousness is not – it forms part of the morphic field of living organisms. I don’t see morphic fields as beings but as the energy and information that make things what they are, whether they are organic or inorganic, conscious or non-conscious. But I agree that individual morphic fields “inhabit” all or many things. Hence my example of cellular intelligence, with individual cells combining to make up different organisms. A colony of ants might be another example: individuals with their own fields working together to create a colony field.