Sheldrake's Morphogenic Field - Innovation (Evolution)

by BBella , Tuesday, October 11, 2016, 23:46 (2963 days ago) @ dhw

Sorry for the late reply, I have been out of town for 4 days - but you can be sure I have been pondering our discussion.

Dhw: So I guess the next question is why your agreement is only tentative.

BBELLA: I say tentative, because I cannot yet visualize in my mind where the line is drawn between that which does the accessing, inventing, tuning into, remembering or just plain being, from the information used. How can any-thing "be" without some kind of process we might conflate with consciousness? Some-thing or some ability lies within or without a thing making it by information/memory, what it IS.

Dhw:I don't have any difficulty conceiving of wind, water, waves, cliffs unconsciously “being” or even "becoming". When the wind drives the water into giant waves that eventually bring the cliffs tumbling down, there is no accessing, inventing, tuning into or remembering, even though every atom and every movement is full of information. We can't be sure they're non-conscious, but if pressed, I would actually draw the line of consciousness between the animate and the inanimate. I'd say information is not conscious, but is used by consciousness - separate but interdependent, because consciousness needs something to be conscious of.

I think I have pinpointed my discomfort in why I cannot be in complete agreement with your two statements above; it comes down to where the placement of consciousness fits within a relationship to the morphic field. If you will allow, I would like to rewrite your recent statement making it more in agreement with how I see it:

I don't have any difficulty conceiving of wind, water, waves, cliffs as “being” or even "becoming". When the wind drives the water into giant waves that eventually bring the cliffs tumbling down, there is a force accessing, inventing, tuning into or remembering every atom and every movement and placement, causing these forms to be what they ARE by accessing memory of what it was. We know there is a force organizing all animate and the inanimate matter (including consciousness itself) into being what it IS by the memory of what it was. I'd say, this force is not conscious in how humans think of consciousness, but nevertheless, this force IS an organizing process, bringing into being all that IS in every moment.