Ruminations on multiverses; Another view (Introduction)

by dhw, Monday, September 05, 2016, 13:05 (2780 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: I'm surprised you can't balance your statement by acknowledging that theists also go well beyond the facts. And I'm surprised you don't acknowledge that nobody even knows whether the universe is limited or unlimited. There are VAST gaps in our knowledge, and that is precisely why the rest of the stuff HAS to be theoretical imagination, and why my hypothesis is no more and no less likely than any other.

See also your new post concerning dark matter. - DAVID: This is one theist who tries to use only the established facts about he universe to reach conclusions. I stick by my statements. My only contention beyond proven fact is God. - Sounds convincing when you condense your contentions to a single word. But as I understand it, you have concluded that the big bang (a theory, not a proven fact) was caused by a form of pure energy that has always existed and has always been conscious, and deliberately created all the billions of solar systems extinct and extant for the purpose of making conditions that would be conducive to life on Earth. He then built the first living organisms and programmed them with lots of innovations and natural wonders, but sometimes dabbled, in order to produce humans. - Here are what I think most of us would call the proven facts (though some philosophers would doubt even that): there is a universe which contains Planet Earth, on which there is life, ranging from microorganisms to insects, fish, birds, and all sorts of animals including humans. Life in this earthly form demands a complex combination of conditions and materials. The atheist can take precisely the same facts and conclude that they are the result of one chance combination out of an infinite number of combinations. Why is his conclusion less factual or more hypothetical than yours? He can't prove chance, and you can't prove God. Over and over again, you have acknowledged that your conclusions do NOT depend on science or on facts but on faith, and I would say the same applies to the conclusions of the atheist.