A Panpsychist Hypothesis (General)

by dhw, Monday, June 30, 2014, 13:26 (3798 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: Even if that energy was conscious, it would have had to make matter out of itself, and if matter had never existed before, how could it know how all the different forms would behave? David's answer is that God's consciousness is different from ours, and so we shouldn't ask such anthropomorphic questions. I have every right to ask such questions, and if I come up with a speculative answer (e.g. that your God had to learn as he went along), it should be taken seriously as a logical possibility.-DAVID: I have granted that God might have had to do some experimenting. Since the universe evolved, glitches are conceiveable. But the initial fermions (matter particles) and bosons (field particles) had to be pre-designed so they all worked together as the BB began. The 'designer universe' observations do not suggest any aspect of impreciseness. Some of the exact numbers required extend out to trillions of decimal places. The current theory about the Higgs is that it must be very exact or the universe would have collapsed upon itself in the beginning, since it provides the field that gives mass to all particles. Do you think this interlocking dependence invented itself?-An impressive answer, until one considers the fact that Higgs himself, like Hawking and many others in this highly specialized field, is an atheist. Are these people such fools that they don't understand the implications of their own studies? As a layman I can't argue with you or with them, but the different conclusions make it clear that you all use science to bolster theories that are based on pure speculation. At least, though, you do have the grace to acknowledge periodically that it all comes down to faith. -dhw: [1]Or perhaps he experimented with other universes and even other forms of life, for ever and ever. [2] Or perhaps he wasn't even aware of anything until his energy happened to transmute itself into matter. We don't know, so one speculation is potentially as valid as another. (This is also my answer to David, who says God "would have to know about matter before he created it or how would He invent a universe which works?")-DAVID: I can accept proposal [1]. I think [2] makes no sense. Why did his energy become matter? More chance as your 'energy happened to transmute" strongly implies?-I might just as well ask why his energy was or became conscious. You demand answers to questions you know are unanswerable, but you do not accept that the same questions can be asked about your own hypothesis. This is the basis of agnosticism. We know NONE of the answers.-dhw: Of course I used "curse" ironically. I don't feel cursed. I am in fact blessed with a generally happy nature and have led a happy life. I have long since grown accustomed to living with my ignorance, although I opened up this website because I'm still eager to learn. ... As for belief, I don't see it as a matter of "would rather". Either you have faith or you don't. And belief or disbelief or non-belief in God is only a problem if you consider it a problem. 

DAVID: Excellent self-analysis. And we'll continue to discuss in that vein.
-I hope so!