Light and Matter (Origins)

by dhw, Saturday, May 24, 2014, 20:32 (3846 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: I agree that we can't know what existed before, but if you claim it was "pure energy" and not matter, you will have to drop the claim that energy and matter are "interchangeable".
DAVID: Ask Hiroshima about interchangeable. All matter is energy in a more solid form. The energy can be released. I don't see your problem. -You will have to forgive my ignorance, but I don't suppose I'm the only one who is confused by the statements that matter and energy are interchangeable, whereas your God is "pure energy" (more later). Hiroshima is a prime example of a colossal amount of energy being released from a small amount of matter. Can we say that it's an example of a colossal amount of matter being released from a small amount of energy?
 
The scientists whose forthcoming experiment was the starting point of this discussion used the terms light and energy as if they were synonymous, and the experiment will set out to prove that matter can be formed from "pure light". Presumably, then, this also means forming matter from "pure energy". But in order to produce this light, they first need to use materials (firing electrons at a slab of gold, firing a high-energy laser into a gold capsule). Do we know of any form of light that does not need a material source? By extension, do we know of any form of energy that does not need a material source? (This is a genuine question, not an argument.) If we do, why is this experiment so important?
 
DAVID: Pure energy is plasma. We have discussed this.-WIKIPEDIA: "Plasma (from Greek πλάσμα, "anything formed") is one of the four fundamental states of matter (the others being solid, liquid, and gas). When air or gas is ionized, plasma forms with similar conductive properties to that of metals. Plasma is the most abundant form of matter in the Universe, because most stars are in plasma state."-No wonder I find all this confusing. How can "pure energy" be the most abundant form of matter in the Universe?-dhw: And since the only intelligence we know is that which appears to "emerge" from matter, why claim that there is a different form of immaterial intelligence that consists solely of energy, even though matter and energy are interchangeable?
DAVID: We don't know exactly what emerges but we do experience it. I simply propose that the universal consciousness is desembodied energy.-I know you propose this. But if plasma is pure energy, and your universal God is pure energy, as you mentioned earlier, and if matter and energy are interchangeable, and pure energy/plasma is matter, do you not yourself find the argument confusing? I'll stop here because this is enough confusion for one day. (And I still haven't got on to its relevance to panpsychism!)