Language and Logic (General)

by David Turell , Tuesday, April 08, 2014, 16:13 (3880 days ago) @ dhw


> Dhw: Can you tell me of anything in existence concerning which it is a known fact that it does not have a cause?
> GEORGE: I'm sure lots of things happen without a cause. Isn't it one of the axioms of quantum theory? But if there is a zero of time then it follows BY LOGIC that there can be nothing preceding it and therefore no cause.
> 
> dhw: "If" is the operative word. Similarly, if the universe had a cause, it follows BY LOGIC that there must have been something before the universe. In both cases, language is being used to create its own seemingly convincing logic, disguising the fact that the basic premise is pure speculation based on no known facts.-I covered this in the following entry: April 08, 2014, 00:17: -
> George; I'm sure lots of things happen without a cause. Isn't it one of the axioms of quantum theory?
 
> David: No it isn't. Some quantum things come from quantum perturbations. Those QPs are not nothing, but are something.
 
> George: But if there is a zero of time then it follows BY LOGIC that there can be nothing preceding it and therefore no cause.
 
> David: Time is caused by a sequence of events, as we humans perceived it. If there are no events an entity can exist timelessly, not changing in any way. No change, no time has passed. Our universe is not eternal, but something was.-There is no logical way around this conclusion.